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Brian Price / Chivalry Bookshelf / Revival controversy

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Sir Edward:

--- Quote from: Sir William on 2011-02-23, 17:27:03 ---It almost seems like their should be a medievally-themed BBB to handle this sort of thing.  In any case, my thoughts are with all of those involved, every last one of them because if there's one thing I CAN understand- it is non-delivery of items already paid for in full.  I'm having this same issue, albeit on a much smaller scale than some, and I'm really struggling with keeping things civil, because of the usual requisites, but it is not easy, especially when a job that should've taken a month at most is now nearing the one year mark and I've not had any comms in over a month, despite assurances that I'd hear within ONE WEEK.

--- End quote ---

Yeah, it's unfortunate, but any field in which a good bulk of the work is done by artists (which technically armorers and custom sword makers are) tends to have this sort of problem. People who are really good at the work often aren't good at the business side of things. Many of them make some pretty severe mistakes without ever intending to defraud their customers. Probably everyone in this hobby has a horror story about an order gone wrong, be it non-delivery, excessive delays, bad communication, poor quality, or not what was requested.

In Mr Price's case, it's gone way beyond these things, since it's his business partners he's been taking advantage of, and shows a long pattern of unethical behavior (that was well concealed at times).

Sir William:
I agree...which is why I think some form of body that can protect these artisans and their customers is in order.  Is the BBB going to be effective in this instance?  I'm thinking that not all of these craftsmen are incorporated like a business, even though I know some are.

Sir James A:
Part of the problem is the "rotation" cycle for these business. At one point, it was probably a good business.

I have had never-ending issues with someone with "30 years experience" in armor who sent me something vastly different from what we agreed upon, completely dropped communication even before I got the armor, and refuses to honor a refund although he's been holding my money for over 6 months and I mailed the armor back weeks ago. The most frustrating thing? He contacted me from a thread I posted asking for references to armorers. Only 2 months before I ordered, I found good reviews of his work. Yet, it's imploded rapidly.

Same thing for some other places, such as Steel Mastery. They used to be praised and recommended, and have fallen quickly, with a few "whats going on?" threads about them.

If the same company was consistently poor, or consistently great, it would be much easier to keep up with. Seems like in the end, we're all going to be ordering mass produced off the shelf generic fit armor and clothing from India. Our options keep getting thinner, and as they do, wait times go up, craftspeople get "overbooked", then burned out, then things collapse, orders aren't filled, and we lose another one. Someone will step up to fill the gap, provide a good product, good service, good prices ... become too popular, get overbooked, burn out ... and the cycle continues. That's what I've seen in the last ~15 years of the armoring community.

But the egregious taking advantage of those who are partners or friends is a whole other issue entirely, and one that should be dealt with appropriately.

Sir Rodney:
James,

I'm so sorry.  I noticed the comparison pictures you posted on AA.  Frankly, I'd say you are handling the situation very well.  I can turn out a breastplate like that with a my modest shop.  I doubt there's much that even Allan could do to fix it.

I think you may be right concerning "burn out".  Maybe Horsefriend was turning out better armour before, but he sure has fallen off his game.

Sir William:
I think it is a shame...as consumers we're not initially cognizant of the demands or workload for a given individual artisan- as far as we are concerned, we paid our money we should receive our goods, end of story.  That's business, cold as it sounds.  I'm more likely to allow concessions for someone I do know as opposed to someone I do not- which is good in a way because the rapport's already established and I'm human like anyone else, I do understand that life happens...but in the case of this sordid affair on AA, those folks' capacity for understanding far outstrips my own.  One of them has been waiting for TEN YEARS for something he commissioned, I'm like WTF is going on?

I try not to take sides but it is hard...especially when I have personal experience with something like this.

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