Creating a society/order?

[Sir Edward]

I also like the idea of a prospective knight requesting sponsorship from current knights, maybe not three, perhaps a primary and a second, w/the KC performing the Accolade, in the presence of all of the knights, if at all possible.

In fact, that could be one of the events for which we all assemble...

It's not a bad idea, and a lot of orders probably work that way. However, I'm cautious about requiring the KC to be present for everything, since a lot of what the group does should be fairly autonomous, IMHO. If we elect someone, and that person ends up having a busy work schedule for the rest of the year, I don't want that to hold things up. Maybe that's not really an issue, and perhaps it's better to keep records of things centralized by having it go through one person. We'll just have to decide. This also plays into how we deal with more distant members.

Ideally it would be nice to have as many knights as witnesses as possible, but I think only a small number should be required for the ceremony itself.  Preferably the knight's original membership sponsors would be there.

The thing I like about having three knights required for the accolade is that it will help against having a couple of knights "power-leveling" a friend into the system, so to speak. Two knights can sponsor someone to join, but they still have to get a third (or even three separate knights) before the accolade.

What would be cool (though expensive) is if we were able to gift the new knight with a set of spurs. It would also naturally fit the three-knight ceremony, since one can be performing the accolade itself with the other two attaching the spurs, and so on. We'll have to think about the elements we want to include. Historically the accolade ceremony often included knights putting the spurs onto the new knight, and also girding his sword on. The one performing the accolade would of course "dub" the new knight with taps from the sword, and frequently there would be a firm strike at the end of the ceremony (a hard slap across the face, or punch to the chest). We can use any or all of these, and read up on additional elements we might like. (I think De Charny also describes specific clothes, like a purple mantle, white tunic, black hose, white belt, etc).

Something that would be easy to add is a certificate that can be framed, and have it signed and dated by the knights performing the accolade.

[Sir Edward]

BTW, I checked and OrderOfTheMarshal.org is available, as is the .com and .net versions.

[Sir William]

Ok, I think we should jump on that.  Sir Edward, since you're the webmaster and know these things, what's required?  Is there a fee associated with claiming that domain name?  I'm all for donating in order to make that happen- maybe as founding members we can all contribute to that.

I also like the idea of making the knight ceremony more elaborate and memorable; gifting them w/spurs is a great idea- they can bring the sword they wish to be girded with (and given the Accolade with, although I think that should be for the KC's sword, imho) and of course they'd be responsible for the particular garb they wish to wear to the ceremony...point taken on the triumvirate of sponsorship, makes sense.

I agree on the KC not having to be present for everything, but the Accolade is the crowning achievement for an Initiate, like graduating high school, and as the KC, the giving of the Accolade should fall to him.  I don't schedules being a bear as we probably won't be doing this on a monthly basis, right?  We could always play it by ear...or pound it out into the Charter for posterity.

As for the firm strike at the end of the ceremony, as much as I like the idea of doing it a la KoH, I'm quite sure there will be those who won't take to it gladly.  But this is a man's undertaking, as men, we can deal.  I'm with whatever the consensus decides.

[Sir Edward]

OK, I've snagged the .com and .org. For non-profit orgs, I prefer the .org since that's what it's for. But since people tend to type .com out of habit, it's nice to have that one and redirect. For now I'll just point them here.

[Sir William]

I prefer the .org as well, besides meaning for organizations, I take it to mean 'organic' which is how I see this group, very real, very alive and subject to change, at least in terms of membership.

I was thinking, also, that maybe for us founding members, we should be inducted into this Order by you, Sir Edward- or at the very least, receive the Accolade so we'd all be on the same footing, so to speak.

[Sir Brian]

Sir Brian...I would kindly request that you disengage yourself from my inner mind as it seems you're saying what I was thinking re: manhood.  Well said, Sir!

By all means good sir, I did not tarry overly long within those hallowed halls of thy mind although I did by happenstance catch a glimpse of your dream the other night and although seeing Kate Blanchet wearing armor while playing a game of twister against a Ferengi ninja was a bit unusual I am not one to be judgmental!

Ah and speaking of spying upon another man’s inner thoughts, Sir Edward managed to channel mine with his suggestion:

What would be cool (though expensive) is if we were able to gift the new knight with a set of spurs.

Gilded of course and if the knight already owns a pair of spurs then we could provide some other appropriate gift of equal value to the spurs. The presenting of such gifts was customary and knightly.

As to whom should bestow the accolade I believe it should be the knight that sponsored the initiate if at all possible or the choice coming from the initiate entirely, it is after all their knighting and again any knight holds the authority to bestow knighthood upon another person. Besides I think it would be almost as meaningful for the knight bestowing the dubbing as it would be the one receiving the accolade.

As to the ceremony itself I also think the initiate should have a major say in the process, or if they wish to totally immerse themselves into the experience they could defer the entire ceremony to the knights bestowing the honor and follow what instructions they provide. This will also enable us to research and appreciate one of the most pivotal moments of knighthood.

[Sir William]

On second thought, you're quite right, Sir Brian- the initiate would of course ask the knight he wished to give him the Accolade, I'm all for that, as it would indeed be as meaningful.

You had me cracking up about Cate in armor playing twister w/a Ferengi ninja...what a visual!  Who was the Ferengi?  lol

[Sir Edward]

You had me cracking up about Cate in armor playing twister w/a Ferengi ninja...what a visual!  Who was the Ferengi?  lol

I vote Brunt, but hey, it's your dream!



Actually I think this sounds pretty good, to have the accolade be largely up to the new knight. Rather than set a ceremony in stone for the whole Order, make it a very personal affair.

[Sir Wolf]

Same here. I'm loving how civil and respectful things have always remained on this forum, and how much everyone seems to be on the same page with this discussion in particular. You all rock. Every one of you.

F'off HAH jk hehehe

[Sir William]

I'm a fan of Rom myself...he's so self-effacing, sort of like the bumbling nobleman who changes into the Black Knight when the King has need.  That's me!

Ok, so I'm not self-effacing per se, but I am very humble.  I believe this to be true.  lol

[Sir Ulrich]

I'd be willing to join a group as long as it's in the tri state area and not too far away from where I live. I kinda need a "group" to join anyway, this way I'll meet more people at ren faires and forge new friendships ect. I did attempt to start my own group with my friends but it fell apart within a month due to lack of funds and my friends not being all that interested in it. Still think most the people on this site are interested enough for it to go somewhere.

[Sir Gerard de Rodes]

As I`ve only just had chance to look through this thread, please forgive my very late input.
Nice job on the charter Sir Ed.
I think that what you are doing is very noble and will almost definitely bring you all together with your common goals and ideals.
Having a level playing field of ranks for members is a fantastic idea, just a plain and simple order of knights.
 A probationary period for newer members (squire,candidate) would give them the oportunity to get a reasonable standard of kit together and absorb the ideals of the order, also to see if the group is actually for them. It would also give the other members an oportunity to see if the latest "newbie" is suitable and fits in with the rest of the order.
One thing I would suggest is that you don`t let your new group get too large as this breeds to so many other problems ( I`m sure you have all had experience of "group politics"  )

Anyway I would be privilaged if you would cosider it possible for me to be an honorary member??

G

[SirNathanQ]

Awesome stuff! Another vote for Sir Ed as the 1st knight Commander!
I think that the knighting ceremony should have the KC present. I think that he should also have to approve all applicants for knighthood. So even the especially well-connected shall be denied their accursed power-leveling!
And I think for matters of keeping things simple, the KC should have centralized. Really, were not keeping inventory of a warehouse here. Really, for this whole thing you might only need a list of names, rank, email, kit completion and era, additional info as needed.   
And there should be a second in command, w/ a cool name, like Knights Captain, or Knights Marshal, Master-at-arms, ect.
This could really take the pressure off the KC to absolutely be at every single thing, and free up alot of breathing space for him.
   

[Sir Edward]

OK, some good ideas here.

Do we feel that a basic probationary period makes sense, and then after that it's largely up to the new member to decide when they feel ready? I'm OK with it going through the KC, mostly as a formality, but also as a potential "veto" if it looks like "power-leveling" so to speak.

Having a second in command isn't a bad idea. How would this person be selected? Appointed by the KC? The runner up in the KC election? I could see this office primarily functioning as a stand-in when the KC isn't present, etc.

If necessary we can create other offices down the line. For instance, if we need to have a treasurer, PR person, or whatever. But we can cross those bridges when we get to them. For the time being, I don't see any money involved for instance.

One thing I would suggest is that you don`t let your new group get too large as this breeds to so many other problems ( I`m sure you have all had experience of "group politics"  )

That's true, and it's a mistake that a lot of groups can make-- Growing too fast, too soon. I think once our core membership is established, we'll have an opportunity to set a precedent for our way of doing things, and the occasional new member will need to grow into what we've established as such.

Anyway I would be privilaged if you would cosider it possible for me to be an honorary member??

Oh, I think we can work something out.

[Sir William]

OK, some good ideas here.

Do we feel that a basic probationary period makes sense, and then after that it's largely up to the new member to decide when they feel ready? I'm OK with it going through the KC, mostly as a formality, but also as a potential "veto" if it looks like "power-leveling" so to speak.

I'm good with that...it gives the applicant time to feel us out and vice versa...I doubt anyone who approaches won't be of a similar mindset, but maybe their ideation may differ in such a way as to require further consideration, who knows.  I'll leave that to the KC to muddle out.

Having a second in command isn't a bad idea. How would this person be selected? Appointed by the KC? The runner up in the KC election? I could see this office primarily functioning as a stand-in when the KC isn't present, etc.

If necessary we can create other offices down the line. For instance, if we need to have a treasurer, PR person, or whatever. But we can cross those bridges when we get to them. For the time being, I don't see any money involved for instance.

Here's where I am concerned...I thought the whole point was for all of us to be equals...I figured the KC would embody most of what was mentioned (PR person, treasurer if needed, etc) - and he could of course delegate if others are willing to take on the task at hand...which I don't see as being a problem, we're all here for the advancement of the Order and its ideals, right?  A hierarchy would only mirror the SCA and other similar organizations- all of which most of us have had some experience with, positive or otherwise.

Second-in-command...how about we call that one the Seneschal?  So we'd have the Knight Commander, his Seneschal and the other Knights of the Order...the flatter it is, the better it'll be, I think.  As for how he is appointed, maybe the KC could make that choice since this person would essentially be his backup?  I should add, if one of us proves to be a capable and efficient administrator, he may find himself chosen for Seneschal on more than one KC's tenure, even if they've already served as such.  Not necessarily a problem for me, but it might be for that gifted admin.  lol