Pronunciation

[Sir Edward]

I added a page with a quick note on the pronunciation of armor terms:

http://modernchivalry.org/pronunciation.html

Anything else you think I should add?

Just a quick note on pronunciation when it comes to armor and other terminology used when discussing knights and chivalry. Most of the words we use to describe the various pieces of armor are actually English words, despite their French appearance. In many cases, this is probably due to the origins of the words being English bastardizations of French, but nevertheless, these words are English and should be pronounced as such.

Examples include "Coif", which is pronounced "koif", not "kwaf". If you check the dictionary, you'll see that it is pronounced as "kwaf" when referring to women's hair, but not in reference to armor.

The words Gorget, Sallet, Bascinet, Armet, and Tasset are pronounced with a hard "T", just like Helmet or Circlet.

When in doubt, pronounce it the way it looks from an English perspective.

[Sir Wolf]

maybe a misspronoucable bible phonic ehehhe

[Sir Edward]

You mean "Maciejowski"? No one can agree on the pronunciation. I'm not touching that one.

[Sir Brian]

Thanks Ed!

*sigh*
Now I have to re-train myself to properly pronounce gorget with a hard "T" instead of a french "eh" sound! 

edited for spelling. I knew how to spell the word but my fingers didn't!

[Sir Edward]

Yeah, I've had to retrain myself multiple times. It's a pain.

I just updated that page to make a reference to the pronunciation of Wisby as well (with the "V" sound).

[Sir Ulrich]

Heh, yeah. I pronounced everything wrong and it was embarrassing when I went to an armoury. At least now I won't do it =P

[Sir William]

Lessons learned, knights...for me at least. 

[Sir Edward]

Cool talking dictionary!

Gorget: http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=gorget&submit=Submit

Coif: http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=coif&submit=Submit

Not many armor terms though.

[Sir James A]

Thanks Ed!

*sigh*
Now I have to re-train myself to properly pronounce gorget with a hard "T" instead of a french "eh" sound! 

edited for spelling. I knew how to spell the word but my fingers didn't!

I do the same thing. Armet, tasset - all hard T for me. Gorget used to be hard. For a long time now, it's been soft. Seems like I saw that in a book somewhere and "retrained" myself. Time for another retraining.

How about "haubergeon"? I have heard it as "how-ber-geon" and "haw-ber-geon" and don't know which is correct.

How about "halberd"? I have heard it as "hal-berd" and "hal-bear". Reasonably sure it should be "berd"?

[Sir Edward]

Yes, I believe it should be a hard "d" on the end of halberd. But I've heard the first syllable as both "hal" (like "pal") and the word "hall". I think for hauberk and haubergeon, either pronunciation for the first syllable is fine. Or at least, I've never seen anyone be picky about it.

The funny thing with those hard "T" sounds is that so many people believe they should be pronounced like a soft French-like "T" that they'll try to correct you. But they're clearly meant to be hard. For instance, there's a period writing somewhere in which a play on words is intended, comparing a Sallet to a Salad. The similarity isn't there if you pronounce the helmet as "Sallay". I don't remember whose writing it is in, perhaps Das Bill will remember, since he's the one who told me about it.

[Sir Edward]

Dang it, now it looks like I've been mispronouncing "Hospitaller" (as in, the Knights Hospitaller).

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Hospitaller

Emphasis belongs on the first syllable. The "a" is almost unpronounced. Very close to the word "hospital" (of course) with an "r" sound tacked on.

I've always pronounced it with the "all" syllable getting the emphasis, and sounding like the name "Al". Ooops.

[Sir James A]

Dang it, now it looks like I've been mispronouncing "Hospitaller" (as in, the Knights Hospitaller).

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Hospitaller

Emphasis belongs on the first syllable. The "a" is almost unpronounced. Very close to the word "hospital" (of course) with an "r" sound tacked on.

I've always pronounced it with the "all" syllable getting the emphasis, and sounding like the name "Al". Ooops.

I've done the same thing, and as best as I can remember, the couple people I've heard say it have said it the same way too.

[Sir Edward]

I've done the same thing, and as best as I can remember, the couple people I've heard say it have said it the same way too.

What drew my attention to it was their order being mentioned on the Chivalry Today podcast, where they dropped that syllable altogether, and said it like "Hospitler".  I wonder how widespread the various pronunciations are, and whether our way of saying it is truly wrong.

[Sir Matthew]

Chalk one up for me, I've been saying it right, well most of the time anyway. I'll admit I have slipped into saying it differently sometimes from hearing others say it that way. It's kinda like being around someone speaking in an accent and finding yourself drifting into copying the way they talk. Annoying to both you and them, no doubt, but when left to my own devices, I have pronounced it more like Hospitler. Nice to know I wasn't doing it wrong after all.

[Sir Wolf]

i always say it as hospi tatler for some reason hehe