new armour

[Sir Wolf]

sir Edward and sir Brian, you good ladies told me you were looking at new armour? is this it? http://vampjac.com/lj/humor/gygax/pointless_armor.jpg

[Dragonlover]

Wow....that's like....REALLY disturbing!....

[Sir Blackwolf]

Now that is just wrong.

[Sir Edward]

My eyes! They bleed!

[Sir Brian]

No matter how much beer I consume I fear that image will never be eradicated from my memory! 


Actually since you started this topic Sir Wolf, I'll ask what the general consensus of this august
forum is concerning this Haubergeon. I’ve been contemplating going back to steel for awhile but not
butted as it is a major annoyance. The price seems to have actually come down some since the last
time I checked about a year ago.

http://casiberia.com/product_details.asp?id=AB2506

[Sir Matthew]

Sir Brian,
   That mail looks really nice and the price looks as if it has come down.  That was the style I was looking to go with originally and if it were not for the fact that this weekend I bought a hand cannon for me, ordered a matchlock musket for me and bought a longbow for my wife, I would probably jump on that mail now.  As it is, I have spent way too much so I fear it will be a while before that comes up for purchase again.

[Sir Brian]

I believe it was $200.00 more last year when I was pricing the steel riveted. I really like that they
alternate the rows with solid rings as well. If I recall correctly that is about as authentic maille can
get... 

[Sir Matthew]

Perhaps in a year or so when I am again looking at getting rivited maille, the price will have dropped another $200  .  One can only hope.  I'll admit, I am not really sure what was authentically done in period, beyond that I know both riveted and welded were made.  Butted was also used, though from what I seem to recall this sounded like it was more of the quick mend and fix correctly later thing than any permanent use on battlefield armor.

[Sir Wolf]

for your time period the 1/2 to 3/4 sleeve would serve you best.

as to the historicalness (that a word?) of mail. there aren't any mail makers out there besides Eric Schmitt(sp?) that can do riveted totally correct.

for 14th century both round ring and flat ring riveted should be fine. I would use the flat ring riveted with alternating rows of solid rings.

there are no welded rings in period. all of the solid rings are stamped from steel. there are some examples of butted rings BUT they are 1. only found on items believed to be ceremonial and very early on such as pre roman and 2. being revised to find out that many are in fact welded just to corroded to have been noticed before

[Das Bill]

Sir Wolf is absolutely correct. All of the mass-produced mail is innaccurate to some degree, though much of the wedge rivetted mail is "close enough for government work". If you examine the real stuff closely, its very clearly not up to snuff, but conidering the current options and pricing its our best bet.

  Butted was also used, though from what I seem to recall this sounded like it was more of the quick mend and fix correctly later thing than any permanent use on battlefield armor.

There's no evidence of this in Europe, as far as I know. Butted was used in very late period Indian armor (i.e. stuff that wasn't used for serious hand to hand combat), and it was used to connect certain parts of Japanese plate armor (i.e. it wasn't the actual defense, but was really just used in lieu of ties).

[Sir Wolf]

if you look at Celtic and other pre-roman mail (yes even in Europe) finds you will see where it is labeled butted. BUT thats why i said BUT it being revamped now. some are in fact riveted with copper rivets that show up on xrays. some are still too corroded to tell on the ceremonial stuff

[Sir Brian]

Thanks for the clarification Das Bill and Sir Wolf! I had intended to get the 1/2 sleeve Haubergeon since it is a "stock" item and if I got a long sleeves it would probably end up being wide enough to be mistaken for a pair of chausses! 

I may have to move on this quickly before they are no longer in stock or raise the price again, but if I do buy this it will definately be my biggest and last purchase of this season! 

[Sir Edward]

Yes, the pricing on these has gotten pretty reasonable, and it's hard to beat it as "off the shelf" armor. Nowhere can you buy mail that's 100% accurate, not just in terms of the rings and rivets, but also the tailoring, so it's always a matter of getting "close enough" for your purposes and at a price you can afford.

[Sir Brian]

And with it weighing in @ 20 lbs it won't be that bad wearing it either! 

[Dragonlover]

Yeah, your bucket alone weighs that!