13th and 14th c. Kits

[Sir Douglas]

Well, I guess I mean at what social class are decorate belts no longer appropriate. Like, were they an item belonging mainly to the wealthy, or could you find a well-to-do townsman walking around with brass sparklies around his waist, too?

[Ian]

I don't have my reference (stuck at work overnight), but those belt fittings look appropriate for a mid range impression if that's what you're looking for.  If you wanted to go wealthy you would be expected to have them silver or gold plated, and the rest of the belt should be highly decorated.  Commons would probably have pewter fittings on a lot of their stuff because it's super cheap.  I'm assuming those are for a soft-kit belt?  Those types of fittings are seen on thin belts for wear in your normal civilian clothing.

Chuck R can correct me on this if I'm wrong.  The nuances of who can wear brass is not my specialty, but I'm fairly confident it's cool for mid range and the lower portion of the upper class, but will give way to gold and silver at the knightly level.

Get yourself a copy of 'Dress Accessories' from the Museum of London series of books if you really want to get in to appropriate fittings, brooches etc...

[Aiden of Oreland]

As said earlier in the post, there were no differences in martial or civil belts. Brass was used more than pewter and is more accurate if I recall from Scott in an earlier post. There wasn't a difference until the 14th century. Also, the more mounts you have the wealthier the design and class you appear. So I so go right ahead. So I think you are fine with what you chose.

[Sir Douglas]

For a soft kit, yes. I'm trying (operative word) to shoot for a more "mid-range" kit for DoK. Basically something to start out with where I can still look nice without breaking the bank on a ton of high-end accessories.

Now when we're talking mid-range, I'm thinking like franklins, merchants, and maybe some gentlemen/esquires. That about right?

[Aiden of Oreland]

For a soft kit, yes. I'm trying (operative word) to shoot for a more "mid-range" kit for DoK. Basically something to start out with where I can still look nice without breaking the bank on a ton of high-end accessories.

Now when we're talking mid-range, I'm thinking like franklins, merchants, and maybe some gentlemen/esquires. That about right?

Should be fine.

[Ian]

Now when we're talking mid-range, I'm thinking like franklins, merchants, and maybe some gentlemen/esquires. That about right?

Yes, with a strong emphasis on the maybe part

It's a matter of how you define mid-range, but in medieval terms gentles were generally orders of magnitude wealthier than commons, so it's hard to define them as mid-range.  But some well-to-do merchants/franklins do approach and exceed the income of some of the gentle folk... so it's a little wishy-washy.

[Sir Douglas]

Okay, cool. Just so I know we're more or less on the same page when we talk "mid-range". It seems like that group can be a little harder to pin down, depending on who you ask.

[Aiden of Oreland]

I just ordered myself a River Thames Mace from Iron gate armory WHO only have 3 left in stock(because I ordered the forth one) and it is a product that is no longer made. Joe Metz has the same one. Very hard to come by. I will be sure to write a review on it!

On that note, I also ordered myself a 13th century gambeson in a natural color from KoA. This brings me one step closer to my ultimate goal of making a 13th century German Knight. I will only write a review on it if somebody asks me too.

[Sir Edward]

I just ordered myself a River Thames Mace from Iron gate armory WHO only have 3 left in stock(because I ordered the forth one) and it is a product that is no longer made. Joe Metz has the same one. Very hard to come by. I will be sure to write a review on it!

Of course it's been discontinued, because it was actually pretty good. It always seems to work out that way. I have one of these too, and it's a great piece to show at demos.

One of the things that's historically "wrong" is that this reproduction has 8 flanges on it, whereas the museum piece it's based on has 7. It's a lot harder to mass-produce it with an odd number, so they fudged it. But that's not a big deal, and not many people know that.

[Don Jorge]

http://irongatearmory.com/other_weapons/axes_maces_and_warhammers/river_thames_mace


I count 7 flanges...maybe they updated their design?

[Sir Edward]

http://irongatearmory.com/other_weapons/axes_maces_and_warhammers/river_thames_mace


I count 7 flanges...maybe they updated their design?

Nope, that's 8 flanges. One of them is blending in with the center shaft.

[Aiden of Oreland]

Its an attractive mace. I figured I could use it for my demo for history club(if permitted of course). This is also great because I can technically use it for a late 13th century soldier and knight, for similar styles were in that period. The only difference is that most records and known artifacts show that the flanged maces of the time had fewer flanges and don't usually have that extended metal base under the mace head. what I also like is that I can use it for an early 14th century (it real targeted time).

Sir Edward, how strong and effective is this mace? Can it be used as a live steel weapon that can take a beating or rather only good for melon smashing? If not either of those, does it only make a good decorative piece?

[Ian]

Can it be used as a live steel weapon that can take a beating or rather only good for melon smashing? If not either of those, does it only make a good decorative piece?

If by live steel you mean used in a WMA setting, then you'd have to be crazy or have a death wish.  A 2lb flanged mace head can defeat real armor and maim or kill the person inside it.

[Aiden of Oreland]

Can it be used as a live steel weapon that can take a beating or rather only good for melon smashing? If not either of those, does it only make a good decorative piece?

If by live steel you mean used in a WMA setting, then you'd have to be crazy or have a death wish.  A 2lb flanged mace head can defeat real armor and maim or kill the person inside it.

I just want to know if this is a well built piece. But if that's answering the question, than awesome. Except I wouldn't literally hit a man with it. Didn't know if this was the real deal or not.

[Ian]

I just want to know if this is a well built piece. But if that's answering the question, than awesome. Except I wouldn't literally hit a man with it. Didn't know if this was the real deal or not.

Usually when someone uses the phrase 'live steel' it means for live combat with steel weapons.