13th and 14th c. Kits

[Sir Ulrich]

I'd go with viking leathercraft shoes with a lugged sole. The reason I suggest those is because you can lace the feet of the chausses between the lugs which makes it harder for them to come undone. http://www.vikingleathercrafts.com/period-footwear.html
I use the 12th century boots myself I also have a pair of the 13th/14th ones but they were too thin at the toes which is why I switched to the 12th century ones, the toes are wider on those as I have wide feet. Could always get period turn shoes but they wear out quickly on rocks and pavement so the viking ones could suffice.

[Aiden of Oreland]

I'd go with viking leathercraft shoes with a lugged sole. The reason I suggest those is because you can lace the feet of the chausses between the lugs which makes it harder for them to come undone. http://www.vikingleathercrafts.com/period-footwear.html
I use the 12th century boots myself I also have a pair of the 13th/14th ones but they were too thin at the toes which is why I switched to the 12th century ones, the toes are wider on those as I have wide feet. Could always get period turn shoes but they wear out quickly on rocks and pavement so the viking ones could suffice.

A great suggestion, for no one will be really looking at my feet really. Let alone see past the chausses. I can save the time appropriate ones for my soft kit. So Ulrich, what is your opinion on the link I provided? Do you think it is a worth while purchase?

[Sir Ulrich]

Thats a decent hauberk but the problem is it's flat ring rather than round. Flat ring round riveted has issues with being a cheesegrater to gambesons. I would probably go after the round ring round riveted 8MM with solid flat punched rings. Thats the closest thing to 12th and 13th century maille around.
http://allbeststuff.com/c-medieval-chainmail-armor/c-chain-mail-shirt-coif-set/Round-Riveted-Links-with-Solid-Washers-Chain-Mail-Full-Suit-Body-Armor
I would go after that one as it has the integrated mittens but not the coif. Separate coifs did exist for the late 1200s and it's more versatile. The mittens will need the palm removed and leather added though. The sleeves also taper so you wont really have to tailor it. It also comes with rings to tailor the coif with and whatnot and it's a full set. All sold for a lower price than what my hauberk cost me ALONE. 

[Aiden of Oreland]

What kind of leather would one use for his mittens? And from where?

[Mike W.]

Here is what Joe Metz had to say about mittens:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8765199@N07/2577352573/#in/set-72157606473530717

-Buy some lambskin/deerskin mittens that fit your hand, nothing fancy or expensive. I used unlined mittens. The main objective is to have the back of your hand covered so that the mail isn’t laying directly on your skin. If you are planning on sparring you best use suede welding mitts, but it will make it more difficult to slit the palm. I cut the elastic gathering out of my mittens; no modern fibers/nylon if I can help it!

-Fashion your mail so that it fits over the top of the mitten. This is relatively easy if you are familiar with working butted mail and a bit more challenging with riveted mail.

-To attach the mail to the mitten you have a couple options. You can sew the edge with a running stitch along the outer edge of the mitten. This is somewhat time-consuming, but really achieves the better result. The other option, if you are working with butted mail is to sink the outer rings of the mail itself through the leather of the mitten. This is what I did in the example above. Again, this works for butted mail because you can open the rings and close them again. Solid, riveted mail does not allow for this technique.
As for the slit in the palm, there apparently were various different configurations, vertical, horizontal, diagonal, close to the wrist and more distal. I picked the midline vertical slit because it seemed to be the most user friendly. The placement of the slit depends on the size of your hand. I was careful not to cut the slit too long which would leave the palm too “floppy”, but the opening has to be big enough to allow your hand to pass through while your arm is in the sleeve with a gambeson on. You also must consider how the mitten will hang on your wrist with the muffler pulled back.

[Sir William]

Flat ring round riveted has issues with being a cheesegrater to gambesons.

Aiden, I would regard this as a "your mileage may vary" comment.  My hauberk, which I've had these past 10 or so years is a flat ring pin-riveted affair; I've not experienced the cheese grater issue that Ulrich has, despite having the same gambeson I've always had since I first got that hauberk- until he mentioned it, I didn't know it was an issue.

[Sir James A]

Flat ring round riveted has issues with being a cheesegrater to gambesons.

Aiden, I would regard this as a "your mileage may vary" comment.  My hauberk, which I've had these past 10 or so years is a flat ring pin-riveted affair; I've not experienced the cheese grater issue that Ulrich has, despite having the same gambeson I've always had since I first got that hauberk- until he mentioned it, I didn't know it was an issue.

Seconded, I've used primarily 9mm flat ring pin riveted mail (wedge only once) for the last few years and have not had any snags or tears from it.

I think the mail is half of the equation - the garment fabric is the other. Lower thread counts, or looser threads, probably makes it easier to snag. My IceFalcon gambeson and Revival Clothing Arming Coat are both doing fine; gambeson has had minimal use but my arming coat is my normal wear, and the only holes it has after 2 full seasons are the holes I put in it myself... and a couple I had to fix from arming points tearing through, but that's not mail related.

edit: Not to say that the wedge riveted isn't a smoother surface than the pin riveted - it is - the difference in surface texture on it is often negligible unless your arming garment is prone to snagging or tearing

As a side note, wedge riveted doesn't seem to catch on "itself" as much as pin does, either. Particularly important when doing the "mail dance" to get a hauberk/haubergeon on. The wedge can still do the "roll" catch, where it rolls up on itself, as can happen when it is tightly fitted, so it isn't flawless, but can be regarded as better. It's also more expensive, and if you go for stainless mail - considerably more expensive.

[scott2978]

I have both pin and wedge riveted mild steel maille, and while I like the wedge much more, the pin was fine to start with. Also I think the wedge riveted rings are a lot easier to rivet, which makes a difference if you want to do much tailoring and when you need to replace broken rings. Alternating solid rings was historical and will save you a few ponds of weight (and a lot of time if you plan to do any tailoring) as well as causing fewer snags and burst rivets.

As for the "cheesegrater" effect, I admit that the pin rivet rings catch on almost everything a lot more than wedged which has nothing to get caught on, but your fabric generally isn't going to get chewed up by it.  I'd say that the comment reminds me that most cheap India made maille has poorly punched rings that leave sharp edges on the inner circumference. Those sharp edges on the rings are what chews up your linen.

[scott2978]

I should add here that Royal Oak Armory is who made my entire plate harness, helm to sabatons. Jeffrey Hildebrandt is really great to work with. Nice to see his work on someone else here.

Maybe he could be added to the links page as a resource?

[Aiden of Oreland]

Alright, that solves my mitten problem. Also, from what you all tell me, I shouldn't really worry about my maille messing up my garment. Which brings me to the next part that must be figured out about my kit, where can I get a gambeson? Capapie has some, or I could go with a cheaper one from KoA. I would make one, but I am going to save all of the custom stuff for when I stop growing, save, my surcoat and additions to my maille. Speaking of surcoat, i have to get back to my heraldic design! In addition, I am actually surprised that it is not there scott.

[Sir Ulrich]

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=SNMC7108BK&name=13th+Century+Gambeson+%2D+Black
That one should work, I got an arming cap made by the same company and they dont use poly in their stuff only all natural materials. You could go the custom route but thats gonna cost at least 200 bucks as thats the amount I payed for mine.

[scott2978]

And I'd add that if you're at all handy with a needle, you could even make your own custom fitted gamby for well under 100 bucks.

[Aiden of Oreland]

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=SNMC7108BK&name=13th+Century+Gambeson+%2D+Black
That one should work, I got an arming cap made by the same company and they dont use poly in their stuff only all natural materials. You could go the custom route but thats gonna cost at least 200 bucks as thats the amount I payed for mine.

Nice find as usual Sir Ulrich

And I'd add that if you're at all handy with a needle, you could even make your own custom fitted gamby for well under 100 bucks.

Ya, custom is usually incredibly cheaper, higher quality(if you do it right), and is the perfect fit for your body. But because of school, I don't have thebtime until the summer. Well, I suppose I could always wait till the summer to make the following: underwear(braies and shirt, chausses, gambeson, and arming cap.

But thats the thing scott, im startig out with easy projects, such as a surcoat, to get a good grip on using a needle and making these type of projects. Eventually I plan to have a fully custom, hand made, kit using all medieval methods. Maybe even have my own little forge and workshop  but anyway i want you all to know im not looking for costume cheap products. Actually, scott, would you happen to know how to make one? Let me add that if anyone has any knowledge or instructions on how to make anything for my kit i would MOST grateful. I know how to make a surcotte but thats about it. Im taking notes as we speak.

[Sir James A]

Custom is usually cheaper - if you do it yourself

Custom is usually more expensive - if you commission it from someone else

Very important distinction

If you want to make a gambeson / arming garment, you can buy a pattern for it for about $25 (Charles de Blois Pourpoint).

Surcoats are pretty easy - I'd wager there are some patterns floating around.

[Aiden of Oreland]

Custom is usually cheaper - if you do it yourself

Custom is usually more expensive - if you commission it from someone else

Very important distinction

If you want to make a gambeson / arming garment, you can buy a pattern for it for about $25 (Charles de Blois Pourpoint).

Surcoats are pretty easy - I'd wager there are some patterns floating around.

This is what i was given when discussing my heraldic design. The only thing I don't know how to do is put in an inside liner that is going to be green. http://cottesimple.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/draft_and_sew_a_surcotte.pdf

I almost forgot!! Im going to need a good, double wrapped, belt for my kit! I know by-the-sword has one that is pretty nice. I am planning to by Iron cross pewters for it. I want this because my heraldry has 3 Iron crosses on a chief. This is the belt: http://www.by-the-sword.com/p-5646-double-wrapped-sword-belt-200208.aspx