"He that respects himself is safe from others; he wears a coat of mail that none can pierce."
                -- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

Author Topic: Helmet Question  (Read 18289 times)

Don Jorge

  • Learning is living...
  • Yeoman of the Order
  • Forum Follower
  • **
  • Posts: 480
  • He who fears death is already dead...
Re: Helmet Question
« Reply #15 on: 2014-02-13, 17:29:42 »
For A Crecy impression an open faced Bascinet is probably the most appropriate.

Sir Ian, for 1380-1400 French are there options besides Houndskull Bascinets? My wife gets the willies from the houndskull and I am looking at that period for my kit atm...Still spanish but from all I have read the spanish used French trends for their armor...if maybe with some latitude on the dating as they might have been up to 20 years behind the french...so really 1365-1390 French is more likely what a Spaniard would have worn.

Sorry to steal your thread Sir Patrick :)

Ian

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,994
Re: Helmet Question
« Reply #16 on: 2014-02-13, 17:38:40 »
For A Crecy impression an open faced Bascinet is probably the most appropriate.

Sir Ian, for 1380-1400 French are there options besides Houndskull Bascinets? My wife gets the willies from the houndskull and I am looking at that period for my kit atm...Still spanish but from all I have read the spanish used French trends for their armor...if maybe with some latitude on the dating as they might have been up to 20 years behind the french...so really 1365-1390 French is more likely what a Spaniard would have worn.

Sorry to steal your thread Sir Patrick :)

You always have the option of going visor-less.

You also might consider kettle-hat variations. 
My YouTube Channel - Knyght Errant
My Pinterest

Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

Don Jorge

  • Learning is living...
  • Yeoman of the Order
  • Forum Follower
  • **
  • Posts: 480
  • He who fears death is already dead...
Re: Helmet Question
« Reply #17 on: 2014-02-13, 17:59:50 »
A bretache wouldn't fly huh? Too early I think...

Edit: I found some in italy from 1371 and 1382...so maybe...I like the bretach fix making an open faced bascinet combat viable!

http://effigiesandbrasses.com/2811/2852/

http://effigiesandbrasses.com/2751/2851/
« Last Edit: 2014-02-13, 18:02:27 by Belemrys »

Ian

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,994
Re: Helmet Question
« Reply #18 on: 2014-02-13, 18:12:45 »
Are you implying that an open-faced bascinet is not combat viable?
My YouTube Channel - Knyght Errant
My Pinterest

Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

Don Jorge

  • Learning is living...
  • Yeoman of the Order
  • Forum Follower
  • **
  • Posts: 480
  • He who fears death is already dead...
Re: Helmet Question
« Reply #19 on: 2014-02-13, 18:30:35 »
Are you implying that an open-faced bascinet is not combat viable?

SCA and ACL combat is what I meant...I misspoke :)

Sir Patrick

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,647
  • Nex pro inhonesto, Deus pro totus.
    • The Order of the Marshal
Re: Helmet Question
« Reply #20 on: 2014-02-13, 22:26:52 »
I just can't bring myself to go with an open faced bascinet. It makes me think of those two English commanders at the Sterling battle in Braveheart. Besides, a visor or helm's eyeslits are way more menacing IMO ;)
Gules, a chevron argent between three cinquefoils ermine.
"Better to live one day as a lion, than a thousand as a lamb."
Knight, Order of the Marshal

Sir Rodney

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,118
  • Inquit Corvus
    • The Mercenary Company Nevermore
Re: Helmet Question
« Reply #21 on: 2014-02-14, 04:44:19 »
Are you implying that an open-faced bascinet is not combat viable?

SCA and ACL combat is what I meant...I misspoke :)

I can't speak to ACL combat, but for the SCA I've seen quite a few awesome bascinets with houndskull visors, bascinets with round nose klappvisors, and kettle hats with well disguised bar grills and mail pseudo-coifs (essentially aventails).

1350-1370 was quite an exciting time for helmets!    :)
"Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say Ni at will to old ladies. There is a pestilence upon this land, nothing is sacred. Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress in this period in history." - Roger the Shrubber

Sir Patrick

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,647
  • Nex pro inhonesto, Deus pro totus.
    • The Order of the Marshal
Re: Helmet Question
« Reply #22 on: 2014-02-14, 20:30:40 »
So I tracked down some period art depicting the Crecy campaign. Are the helmets pictured the same as the photo?  Tough for me to determine for sure since period art can look a bit wonky.
Gules, a chevron argent between three cinquefoils ermine.
"Better to live one day as a lion, than a thousand as a lamb."
Knight, Order of the Marshal

Sir Wolf

  • He Who is Not to be Named
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,389
  • i have too many hats
    • man e faces
Re: Helmet Question
« Reply #23 on: 2014-02-14, 20:46:51 »
well, i believe the helmet is supposed to be the great bascinet rather than the klapvisor.

Sir Patrick

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,647
  • Nex pro inhonesto, Deus pro totus.
    • The Order of the Marshal
Re: Helmet Question
« Reply #24 on: 2014-02-14, 21:45:08 »
well, i believe the helmet is supposed to be the great bascinet rather than the klapvisor.

So you think it's this one? 

Gules, a chevron argent between three cinquefoils ermine.
"Better to live one day as a lion, than a thousand as a lamb."
Knight, Order of the Marshal

Ian

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,994
Re: Helmet Question
« Reply #25 on: 2014-02-14, 21:48:11 »
So I tracked down some period art depicting the Crecy campaign. Are the helmets pictured the same as the photo?  Tough for me to determine for sure since period art can look a bit wonky.

This artwork post-dates Crecy by 60 years.  It was painted in 1410!  While it does depict Edward III at Crecy, the armor and styles in the illumination are very late 14th / early 15th century.

Be very careful with period artwork.  What usually matters is when it was painted, not when it's subject took place.  Medieval artists tended to paint everything in the style of the present day, not the day in which the events of their paintings took place.

Long story short, those helmets in that painting are NOT appropriate for Crecy.

For informational purposes only, the helmets depicted in that panel from Froissart are more akin to this helmet.  It's in a style in between the true 'Great Bascinet' and the standard  Houndskull Bascinet in that it starts to round out the snout of the houndskull, but still incorporates a maille aventail instead of rigid throat defense:


« Last Edit: 2014-02-14, 21:53:01 by Ian »
My YouTube Channel - Knyght Errant
My Pinterest

Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

Sir Wolf

  • He Who is Not to be Named
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,389
  • i have too many hats
    • man e faces
Re: Helmet Question
« Reply #26 on: 2014-02-14, 22:38:37 »
thats purdy

Sir Patrick

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,647
  • Nex pro inhonesto, Deus pro totus.
    • The Order of the Marshal
Re: Helmet Question
« Reply #27 on: 2014-02-15, 00:25:12 »
That IS purdy!
Gules, a chevron argent between three cinquefoils ermine.
"Better to live one day as a lion, than a thousand as a lamb."
Knight, Order of the Marshal

Lord Dane

  • The Hound, Hunter, and Hammer of Justice
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,900
  • Selflessness, Service, Justice.
Re: Helmet Question
« Reply #28 on: 2014-02-15, 00:34:48 »
I cannot wear a pigeon beak bascinet.
"Fides, Honos, Prudentia, Sapiencia" (Faith, Honor, Prudence, Wisdom)
"Fiat justitia ruat caelum" (Let justice be done)

Ian

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,994
Re: Helmet Question
« Reply #29 on: 2014-02-15, 02:51:31 »
That IS purdy!

It is (it's Jeff Wasson).  But did you catch the part about the paintings you linked being 60 years too late?  I don't want you to spend a bunch of money on a helmet style that's not correct if you're trying to stick to Crecy era.  ;)
« Last Edit: 2014-02-15, 02:52:54 by Ian »
My YouTube Channel - Knyght Errant
My Pinterest

Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum