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Author Topic: My Armor kit - Historical Fiction?  (Read 41013 times)

Sir Martyn

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My Armor kit - Historical Fiction?
« on: 2014-02-11, 03:39:36 »
So as Ian suggested want to invite debate on whether/how much of my existing harness (made by Green Shield Armoury in Novi sad, Serbia) could be adapted for use in living history. 

Originally I had only imagined using it in LARP, SCA and re-enactment but it would be great also to adapt it for DoK use.

Strikes me the helmet is perhaps one of the more problematic aspects and the form/function of the cuirass and faulds are unusual, but I was hopeful after looking over some of arms & armor books most if not all could be adapted for central Europe, late 1400s to mid-1500s.

Welcome discussion and suggestions on that, will post more pictures soon.
« Last Edit: 2014-02-11, 03:39:49 by Gareyth »
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Re: My Armor kit - Historical Fiction?
« Reply #1 on: 2014-02-11, 06:08:19 »
Disclaimer: I’m by no means well informed on your chosen period.

That said, two things jump out at me in the photo of you seated.  The helm seems to be a bit too much on the fantasy side and the footwear needs to be replaced with something more period.
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Sir Wolf

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Re: My Armor kit - Historical Fiction?
« Reply #2 on: 2014-02-11, 12:32:57 »
wow i really like your armour. i really do man. it's perfectly put together and it all matches

very cool

but, that being said. it's not historical. armour styles came mainly out of 2 places, italy and germany. the flemish and english did have a style but they weren't as influential as the others

 the helemt is off like you said. the breastplate is not the 2 peice as you see in most pictures were the plackart is over the breast. the tassats are designed (pretty cool) but not in any fashion that i have seen. the alms and legs look like they move great, but the fans on the elbows and knees don't follow the fashion.

please don't let that stop you liking or wearing your armour. i think its 100% awesomeness. just not what one could wear to DOK

Ian

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Re: My Armor kit - Historical Fiction?
« Reply #3 on: 2014-02-11, 12:58:44 »
wow i really like your armour. i really do man. it's perfectly put together and it all matches

very cool

but, that being said. it's not historical. armour styles came mainly out of 2 places, italy and germany. the flemish and english did have a style but they weren't as influential as the others

 the helemt is off like you said. the breastplate is not the 2 peice as you see in most pictures were the plackart is over the breast. the tassats are designed (pretty cool) but not in any fashion that i have seen. the alms and legs look like they move great, but the fans on the elbows and knees don't follow the fashion.

please don't let that stop you liking or wearing your armour. i think its 100% awesomeness. just not what one could wear to DOK

Exactly my sentiments.

If you really want to go to DoK, I would recommend going the soft kit route unless you want to re-invest in historical armor.

But as Sir Wolf said, that is a sharp kit you've got there!
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Sir Brian

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Re: My Armor kit - Historical Fiction?
« Reply #4 on: 2014-02-11, 14:03:44 »
WOW! That is a really fantastic harness! Truly a pity it isn’t suitable for all your interests but it is an excellent harness for a majority of your interests and yet it not being entirely compatible for LH it does leave you an opportunity to expand your armor collection and represent another time period!  :)
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Sir Edward

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Re: My Armor kit - Historical Fiction?
« Reply #5 on: 2014-02-11, 16:11:45 »

It really is a beautiful kit. I love it to death.

I would classify it as "historically-inspired fiction", personally. It looks very well designed, and well articulated, but as Wolf pointed out, it's mainly the style and fashion of the period that is not represented.

As everyone else pointed out, don't take that as a bad thing at all. It's a great harness!

But this is a great example of why I aimed to go more "simple" when I went to DoK. The harness I put together in preparation for that, was my circa-1250 Teutonic kit:



I've attached some images of various plate armors from the 15th/16th century time-frame. I hose these pretty much at random, but as some examples of period fashion trends.
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Sir James A

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Re: My Armor kit - Historical Fiction?
« Reply #6 on: 2014-02-11, 16:26:53 »
WOW! That is a really fantastic harness! Truly a pity it isn’t suitable for all your interests but it is an excellent harness for a majority of your interests and yet it not being entirely compatible for LH it does leave you an opportunity to expand your armor collection and represent another time period!  :)

Perhaps no shock, but I'll echo that "two sets of armor" idea. 8)

As Sir Wolf said, the main thing with the cuirass is it is "inverted", under/over instead of over/under. I would call it "historically influenced". The arms are close, the elbow cops are close except should "flare out" towards the elbow in more of a "V". The knee cops don't strike me as historical though they may be based off of an uncommon example. There are lots of other odds and ends that put it "historically based" rather than "historical reproduction". I would say don't try to adapt it to Living History.

You'd essentially be looking at replacement of most plate parts. Spread it out over time, and it isn't too bad. If you are planning for Days of Knights, do "soft kit" this year and plan for "hard kit" in 2015. Buy something every 4 months; cuirass, arms, legs, helmet, gauntlets... that's 20 months and falls right about Oct next year, in time for DoK, if that is a reasonable timeframe for your budget.

And I say two harnesses because it is a great harness already. It is suitable for many purposes, and you would be essentially ruining a perfectly good harness to try to "convert" it to Living History - beyond that, it may be almost as expensive, or more, to do so, and you end up with only one harness still. You already have the requisite arming clothes and sword.
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Sir William

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Re: My Armor kit - Historical Fiction?
« Reply #7 on: 2014-02-11, 18:56:44 »
Gareyth, you cut a fine figure in that harness, my friend.  I love the look.
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Re: My Armor kit - Historical Fiction?
« Reply #8 on: 2014-02-12, 00:53:38 »
It might not be historical, but I really like that harness. I don't see too many "fictional" harnesses that I can say that about. It's something I could imagine the knights of Dol Amroth from LotR wearing. I'm going to go the classic "Sir James route" and say work on a separate, historical kit if you can. ;) It would probably be just about as expensive to convert that one, and it would be a shame to try to convert it and end up with something that's neither historical nor looks as nice as it does now.

But yes, definitely hold on to that one, because it's just so darn cool!
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Re: My Armor kit - Historical Fiction?
« Reply #9 on: 2014-02-12, 15:00:49 »
But yes, definitely hold on to that one, because it's just so darn cool!

Absolutely. I think it's downright gorgeous.
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Sir William

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Re: My Armor kit - Historical Fiction?
« Reply #10 on: 2014-02-12, 15:21:18 »
It might not be historical, but I really like that harness. I don't see too many "fictional" harnesses that I can say that about. It's something I could imagine the knights of Dol Amroth from LotR wearing. I'm going to go the classic "Sir James route" and say work on a separate, historical kit if you can. ;) It would probably be just about as expensive to convert that one, and it would be a shame to try to convert it and end up with something that's neither historical nor looks as nice as it does now.

But yes, definitely hold on to that one, because it's just so darn cool!

LOL

It really is 'his' route isn't it?  It isn't like I can ignore him, he's my Brother and he's a really nice guy so it sounds all good when he says 'oh yea, split that off and create a new harness,  you'll just need this and this and...' - but beware, good gentles.  ;)
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Re: My Armor kit - Historical Fiction?
« Reply #11 on: 2014-02-17, 16:26:45 »
Thanks for all the great feedback, folks. 

Just keeping the discussion friendly, I did have a few photos from my Arms & Armor of the Medieval Knight: An illustrated history of weaponry in the Middle Ages (DAVID & JOHN PADDOCK EDGE) that I thought could have made the argument for historical consideration of some of the harness pieces' inclusion, but am not going to fall on my sword about it :) 

Outside of LH, I take it this harness would still be welcome at Order functions/outings?

Looks like a second harness may be in order - but who's going to explain that to my wife? :)

A 13th century maile kit may be the easiest to procure my then.  Where did y'all procure your rings?
« Last Edit: 2014-02-17, 16:27:32 by Gareyth »
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Sir James A

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Re: My Armor kit - Historical Fiction?
« Reply #12 on: 2014-02-17, 17:19:52 »
Thanks for all the great feedback, folks. 

Just keeping the discussion friendly, I did have a few photos from my Arms & Armor of the Medieval Knight: An illustrated history of weaponry in the Middle Ages (DAVID & JOHN PADDOCK EDGE) that I thought could have made the argument for historical consideration of some of the harness pieces' inclusion, but am not going to fall on my sword about it :)

Which pages? I'll take a look, you have me curious. 

Outside of LH, I take it this harness would still be welcome at Order functions/outings?

Of course!

Looks like a second harness may be in order - but who's going to explain that to my wife? :)

I think the person best suited to have that conversation would be you. :)

A 13th century maile kit may be the easiest to procure my then.  Where did y'all procure your rings?

IceFalcon and GDFB / Kult of Athena. Both tend to have at least some things in stock, both are in the US, and both ship quickly.

IceFalcon is having a 10% off anything in stock sale: http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=168743
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Sir Wolf

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Re: My Armor kit - Historical Fiction?
« Reply #13 on: 2014-02-18, 02:11:00 »
muahahhaha one of us, one of us. dude, next to your kit i would feel like a hobo lol i think it's awesome. i really do. not 100% historical fashion for DOK but 100% welcome in the order!!

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Re: My Armor kit - Historical Fiction?
« Reply #14 on: 2014-02-18, 18:40:16 »

Outside of LH, I take it this harness would still be welcome at Order functions/outings?

Of course!

Most definitely! It is magnificent! :)

Looks like a second harness may be in order - but who's going to explain that to my wife? :)

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