Main > The Armoury
Armstreet new harness
Ian:
--- Quote from: Gareyth on 2014-01-23, 19:18:17 ---It's very pretty, but seems there's not much in the way of back protection.
Ian - what's your take on Armstreet's etched/stainless "paladin" armor?
--- End quote ---
It's cool looking, but that's about it :)
It has no historical accuracy at all though. Not a single piece really... it's a mish-mash of different eras, and the individual pieces are not shaped properly to be historical. Etching is also not appropriate for anything short of the renaissance pretty much, it would have been engraved in the late medieval. And of course stainless is not appropriate. I can nit-pick if you want, but overall it's LARP armor, it's not historical at all.
Sir Martyn:
--- Quote from: Ian on 2014-01-23, 21:27:39 ---
--- Quote from: Gareyth on 2014-01-23, 19:18:17 ---It's very pretty, but seems there's not much in the way of back protection.
Ian - what's your take on Armstreet's etched/stainless "paladin" armor?
--- End quote ---
It's cool looking, but that's about it :)
It has no historical accuracy at all though. Not a single piece really... it's a mish-mash of different eras, and the individual pieces are not shaped properly to be historical. Etching is also not appropriate for anything short of the renaissance pretty much, it would have been engraved in the late medieval. And of course stainless is not appropriate. I can nit-pick if you want, but overall it's LARP armor, it's not historical at all.
--- End quote ---
Uh oh, sounds like you're talking about my harness - at least mine's not stainless. ;)
I have to say one of the characteristics that is tempting me if I were ever to get a second harness (I can hear Sir James whispering in my ear) as I'm getting older (and lazier) would be if it were a bit easier on the maintenance side. LOL
Yep, understood they're not going for historical accuracy - at least with that harness. So the ornate armors for Henry VIII and Maximillian (i.e., jousting armor) was engraved, rather than etched?
So, coming back to DoK and similar events, how strict are the requirements on armor, etc to participate? Is everything required to be exact recreations of established historical patterns, or (like in my case) are harnesses that may mix/combine elements from different periods generally disallowed, and their wearers tarred and feathered?
Understand may be hard to answer since you've not seen my armor in person, just trying to get a feel for the borders.
Ian:
--- Quote from: Gareyth on 2014-01-26, 16:25:09 ---Uh oh, sounds like you're talking about my harness - at least mine's not stainless. ;)
I have to say one of the characteristics that is tempting me if I were ever to get a second harness (I can hear Sir James whispering in my ear) as I'm getting older (and lazier) would be if it were a bit easier on the maintenance side. LOL
Yep, understood they're not going for historical accuracy - at least with that harness. So the ornate armors for Henry VIII and Maximillian (i.e., jousting armor) was engraved, rather than etched?
So, coming back to DoK and similar events, how strict are the requirements on armor, etc to participate? Is everything required to be exact recreations of established historical patterns, or (like in my case) are harnesses that may mix/combine elements from different periods generally disallowed, and their wearers tarred and feathered?
Understand may be hard to answer since you've not seen my armor in person, just trying to get a feel for the borders.
--- End quote ---
Maintenance free armor is an oxymoron :)
Etching on armor existed in the 16th century as far as I know, but this is the renaissance. 14th century armor was engraved.
I'm about to go to the gym, so I don't have time to address the DoK requirements specifically, but I will when I return in an hour or two.
Ian:
--- Quote from: Gareyth on 2014-01-26, 16:25:09 ---So, coming back to DoK and similar events, how strict are the requirements on armor, etc to participate? Is everything required to be exact recreations of established historical patterns, or (like in my case) are harnesses that may mix/combine elements from different periods generally disallowed, and their wearers tarred and feathered?
Understand may be hard to answer since you've not seen my armor in person, just trying to get a feel for the borders.
--- End quote ---
OK. You've asked two questions here, so I will address them in turn.
1. Does the form of the armor at Days of Knights need to be an exact recreation of existing known historical patterns?
No. It does not need to be a slavish reproduction of a proof-positive documentable piece of existing armor. It should not have any fantasy elements though. It should function like real armor, and appear like real armor. Although you don't need to be able to point to a particular manuscript or museum find to document your armor, you shouldn't have any armor that didn't exist in period. For example, there's no such thing as splinted torso protection, or plate gorgets from the 12th century. If you have to say "it's possible they may have had something like this, even though there's no proof" consider whatever it is you're saying that about, unacceptable for use. That's an invalid and illogical way to justify something, and does not pass muster. Now if you have sabatons that don't match the exact piece housed in Chartres Cathedral as made for Charles VI when he was Dauphin of France in the 14th century, that's fine, as long as your sabatons function, they look the part, are made from appropriate materials, and are appropriate for the time period you're portraying. As far as materials go, mild steel and spring steels are acceptable. Stainless steel and aluminum should be avoided.
2. Is it ok at DoK to mix/combine elements from different periods?
No. This is not ok. Everything on your harness should be cohesive and give the appropriate impression of whatever it is you're trying to depict within a reasonable span of time. Reasonable span of time is open for discussion, but a 14th century bascinet with a late 15th century plate harness is very much inappropriate. Things should probably be kept to within a couple decades of each other. Things that are within a couple decades of each other but clearly were never worn together in period would also not be appropriate. This extends to things from varying regions. For example, a highly fluted German gothic harness of the late 15th century wouldn't really have an Italian Armet for a helmet even though these two objects coexisted on the battlefield.
The reason for this is because the goal of Days of Knights is to educate the public on the realities of the Middle Ages as they were. If we start to bend what would have been and what might have been and go beyond the realm of what we know to have been, we begin to perpetuate the myths and fantasy that currently plague the modern public's understanding of the Medieval Era.
One of these myths in particular is that modern folks think of the Middle Ages as one cohesive period of time. They don't grasp that it spanned roughly 450 years from 1066 to the Renaissance at turn of the 16th century. To put this in perspective, Richard III died at Bosworth in 1485, about 500 years ago. William the Conqueror died in 1087, about 400 years before Richard III. To Richard III, William the Conqueror was just as archaic as Richard III is to us! So because of this we don't want to give the public the impression that styles of armor separated in time by 100 or more years would ever have appeared together on the battlefield, because it's just as misinformative and ridiculous as us trying to sell to the public that the modern military uses the same equipment as the soldiers of the Spanish American War.
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As a general rule of thumb, strive for as accurate as possible. If something is clearly not accurate you should be in a position to explain to the public why it's not accurate and why you made the concession you did so as not to give the impression that what you're wearing is correct to the period if it is not. That being said, it's not about finding what you can get away with. It's about giving it your best shot at authenticity, but allowing for a few inevitable places where we all fall short, while simultaneously not being false to the public.
Here are the 'official' standards from the DoK website. They are a guideline:
http://daysofknightsfrankfort.com/html/standards.html
Everything I've said above also applies to soft kit, not just armor.
Sir Nate:
I like that armor.
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