My Kit...14th Century for CotT (SCA Legal)

[Sir James A]

Gambeson or CdB Pourpoint > Cuisse belt

I have a cuisse belt ("C belt") in the closet. Never wore it outside of the house. Wasn't comfortable enough.

[Thorsteinn]

If that doesn't work for shoes try Bohemond or Amlann.

For rattan try Icefalcon Armoury or http://shop.mastereirik.com/main.sc

[Don Jorge]

Any thoughts on a Corazzina vs CoP? I think for a German 14th century kit CoP is more appropriate but any chance that would get by? I like the look of a Corazzina...man now I want 2 14th century kits...one german and one italian...hate you guys! GAH!

[Ian]

Any thoughts on a Corazzina vs CoP? I think for a German 14th century kit CoP is more appropriate but any chance that would get by? I like the look of a Corazzina...man now I want 2 14th century kits...one german and one italian...hate you guys! GAH!

This comes entirely down to years you want your kit to represent.

This graph represents a sampling of German effigies by body defense type vs time period.  A corrazina could be represented by what Dr. Strong refers to here as either 'Rounded' or 'Globose'.  So if you're looking at anything prior to the 1350's you're in a COP.  Anything 1350's to 1360's it's shooter's choice, COP, Corrazina, or a single piece globose breastplate.  In to the 1370's the COP appears to go the way of the dodo for German effigies.



http://talbotsfineaccessories.com/armour/effigy/German-Effigies.htm

[Don Jorge]

Nice my kit was falling under 1351-1364...back to the drawing board! Gah!

[Don Jorge]

http://effigiesandbrasses.com/3099/2489/



Any thoughts on this effigy? It is expensive to replicate in spring steel but would be safer than splinted armor. I can't find any information on the subject of the effigy. His name seems german but it is found in france. Anyone have any ideas or experience with the effigy and his armor? It seems really advanced for 1361...everything is articulated and particularly interesting is his chest armor...is that a brigandine? or a corrazina?

[Ian]

His name seems german but it is found in france. Anyone have any ideas or experience with the effigy and his armor? It seems really advanced for 1361...everything is articulated etc...

Well that's because it's in Alsace.  Alsace was part of the Holy Roman Empire until it was annexed by France in the 17th century ;-)

The leg harness is pretty standard for 1360's.  For whatever reason the leg harness evolved faster than the arm harness, which wasn't commonly fully articulated until about a decade or two later depending on where you are.  Armor tended to be slower to catch on in Germany, but even in the 1360's a fully articulated leg harness can be seen on roughly 50% of surviving German effigies.  Comparable arm harnesses would be much more rare in the 1360's, so his articulated arms are pretty cutting edge for his time.

[Don Jorge]

Any idea on the chest armor Ian? Looks like a Brigandine...

[Sir Wolf]

remember the guys that could afford most of this were on horse. and where's the easiest thing to hit  on a horseman by a foot solider? his legs. i reckon the upper arms weren't developed due to the "downward swing?" of the horseman? maybe dunno.

i dont think its a brig. brigs aren't developed until really the 1450s i think.
it almost looks like a padded jupon or quilted gambeson

[Don Jorge]

remember the guys that could afford most of this were on horse. and where's the easiest thing to hit  on a horseman by a foot solider? his legs. i reckon the upper arms weren't developed due to the "downward swing?" of the horseman? maybe dunno.

i dont think its a brig. brigs aren't developed until really the 1450s i think.
it almost looks like a padded jupon or quilted gambeson

So he would have been wearing a Corazzina or CoP underneath as there isnt a larger shape under the jupon/gambeson?

[Ian]

If you look carefully at the effigy, at just above above his waist you see the outline starting to bow out.  I suspect there's some sort of globose protection underneath, be it a pair of plates (corrazina) or a solid breastplate.  That's the problem with understanding the early cuirass.  In the 14th century virtually all torso protection is covered, making it impossible to tell exactly what's worn underneath except by general outline.

[Sir James A]

remember the guys that could afford most of this were on horse. and where's the easiest thing to hit  on a horseman by a foot solider? his legs. i reckon the upper arms weren't developed due to the "downward swing?" of the horseman? maybe dunno.

i dont think its a brig. brigs aren't developed until really the 1450s i think.
it almost looks like a padded jupon or quilted gambeson

^ this. Aside from helmets, of which most don't articulate, the leg defense and body defense were the two to advance the fastest, torso being vital to protect (lookin' at you, archers!), and lower legs being more likely to be struck by anyone on the ground. Arms needed the most mobility since they wield weapons, were less likely to be struck, and have a wider range of motion than legs do.

If you look carefully at the effigy, at just above above his waist you see the outline starting to bow out.  I suspect there's some sort of globose protection underneath, be it a pair of plates (corrazina) or a solid breastplate.  That's the problem with understanding the early cuirass.  In the 14th century virtually all torso protection is covered, making it impossible to tell exactly what's worn underneath except by general outline.

Seconded. That's not a "natural" place for the garment to hang inward like that without some form of solid protection underneath giving that shape.

[Sir Wolf]

why not? can't we all have hour glass figures? you all be hatin!

[Sir James A]

why not? can't we all have hour glass figures? you all be hatin!

I suppose it's vaguely possible, but you'd have to be very emaciated to have that high of a "hourglass" silhouette as a male. And I doubt someone with that kind of build would be able to wear plate and battle, too.

[Don Jorge]

So I am looking at buying the sugarloaf in this thread: http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=2577671#p2577671

He offered it to me for $200...sounded a bit desperate...and he doesn't have a reputation of someone like Maxim or Tengushin so I am a bit wary of sending him all my money without ready reviews....I PM'd the other guy who supposedly bought it and he saw the message but hasnt responded.

Worth the risk?