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Author Topic: Gotta get this off my chest.  (Read 26202 times)

Sir William

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Re: Gotta get this off my chest.
« Reply #30 on: 2012-02-17, 15:05:38 »
I meant VAF, thank you Sirs Edward and Brian.  I do not know who my instructor is yet...but am looking forward to the class.
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Sir Edward

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Re: Gotta get this off my chest.
« Reply #31 on: 2012-02-17, 16:22:15 »
I'd take a page from Sir Wolf's book and say "Pictures!!", but they have a no-photo policy at VAF (this can be bent for some occasions, but is mostly a "get permission from everyone involved first" sort of thing).
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Sir William

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Re: Gotta get this off my chest.
« Reply #32 on: 2012-02-17, 19:10:11 »
I'll do what I can but I'm usually not one for having a go at the rules from the outset.  Give me some time...lol

I'm kidding, in case Bill happens to see this. 
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Thorsteinn

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Re: Gotta get this off my chest.
« Reply #33 on: 2012-02-27, 23:11:07 »
Fought for the first time since August at the Golden Rivers Championship on Saturday. I was on the field from the first fights to the last. Wow I'm sore.


Also...I know this is old soup (and I have no animisity in this bit though it may seem so, I just want to point out some things I didn't before) but I must put this out there regarding SCA wrap shots: They have disabled legs through steel. I, myself, have been browned out by them through a 12 ga helm. What we call the Grasscutter Strike is in the manuals and uses wrap body mechanics.

God's help you if your opponent is using a mace and does that blow. I don't have to chop off a limb to disable it. I don't have to cut through your body through to stop you if I damage any of the vulnerable things on the back of your legs, butt, or neck.

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SirNathanQ

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Re: Gotta get this off my chest.
« Reply #34 on: 2012-02-28, 04:33:31 »
My thing with the wrap shot is the vulnerability of the arm when thrown at the longer measures that WMA combat takes place.

But it is rather suited for a mace. I'm not going to argue it's existence in period, or that it shouldn't be used, or anything ridiculous, it's just simply not the Bread and butter in WMA that it is in the SCA.

Good fight, sounds like fun  :)
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Thorsteinn

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Re: Gotta get this off my chest.
« Reply #35 on: 2012-02-28, 06:36:21 »
True.

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Allan Senefelder

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Re: Gotta get this off my chest.
« Reply #36 on: 2012-02-28, 13:15:35 »
Quote
Also...I know this is old soup (and I have no animisity in this bit though it may seem so, I just want to point out some things I didn't before) but I must put this out there regarding SCA wrap shots: They have disabled legs through steel. I, myself, have been browned out by them through a 12 ga helm. What we call the Grasscutter Strike is in the manuals and uses wrap body mechanics.

I've never had anybody really explain this to my satisfaction and i've done business with everything from WMA to LH to SCA to Rennies. In the larger scheme of things why does anyone care? I thought it was supposed to be about having fun and i've seen folks on all sides of the spectrum get all sorts of worked up over whos legit, what style is the real deal ect, isn't it supposed to about having a good time? The minute you start the " my dojo is better than your dojo " you've stopped having fun and your hobby just became work so at least to my mind, whats the point then, your not having fun? I don't see stamp collectors duking it out verbally with each other over who's mojo is better, I can't recall the last time I saw two groups of bird watches assaulting each other out in the woods over who's doing it better. I've never understood how contentious is a part of fun. If some one wants to get in a circle with thier friends with boards to thier noses and sticks over thier heads, god bless and enjoy, if some one wants to bring a ton of fantasy leather armour and what amounts to a couch cushion with straps on it and call it a shield at the larp event have a blast, if some one wants to slap on elf/Spock ears with their 16th century lady in waiting dress and put sparklies on thier face at the renfaire, have at it.

Ian

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Re: Gotta get this off my chest.
« Reply #37 on: 2012-02-28, 14:01:51 »
I agree that all groups are entitled to their fun and can pretty much do what they want.  The difference is, people at LARP events with boffer swords or people wearing elf ears and glitter don't try to claim historical accuracy. People get their panties in a bunch over this particular issue mostly because WMA is trying to reproduce as close as possible a historically accurate use of whatever their weapon of choice is.  The SCA heavy list is not intended to be a historically accurate fighting sport, it's intended to be fun, much as you described earlier.  The WMA folks get upset when the SCA crowd tries to take their sport and claim it as historically accurate, much as the LH follks would be upset if the elf ears and glitter crowd tried to point out what they were doing as historically accurate in a living history context.

I'm not picking sides here, I'm just trying to explain why it's a touchy subject for a lot of WMA/HEMA groups. They want their fun to be constrained by a specific ruleset, in this case, historical accuracy.  So if a member of another group, in this case SCA comes along and tries to bring valid techniques that don't apply within their ruleset, they can get upset.
« Last Edit: 2012-02-28, 14:40:24 by Ian »
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Sir Wolf

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Re: Gotta get this off my chest.
« Reply #38 on: 2012-02-28, 14:53:03 »
ya as much as anyone wants to put it as far as the sca, living history, fantasy etc, we're all LARPS. i dont care what people say it's true. we all play a game and dress up. whether it's to honor vets, get rid of reality or what have you. just different names and different faces.

Sir Brian

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Re: Gotta get this off my chest.
« Reply #39 on: 2012-02-28, 15:13:52 »
I wholeheartedly agree with Allan’s and Sir Wolf's perspectives. Whatever gives you the most sense of achievement and happiness than the more power to you!  :)
 
For me, I must confess of a few things. Firstly I am not as dedicated an academic as perhaps I should be for WMA. I like to study the forms and principles and then see how to incorporate them into my developing fighting style. It has been a few decades since I’ve competed on a sport or recreational level and I’ve found in the past fifteen months that the studying of WMA has rekindled that old love of ‘safe’ combat. It lacks the intense and almost euphoric adrenaline rush of genuine life and death struggle (in my case bar fights) but then again I didn’t really enjoy experiencing that when I was half the age I am now so essentially I get to enjoy the thrill of a martial art without the danger of death or dismemberment. For me, I really think being hit with anything less than something that has the potential of breaking bones would take away from that battle sense and would therefore lead me more to discouragement than to development.  :-\
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Sir Edward

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Re: Gotta get this off my chest.
« Reply #40 on: 2012-02-28, 15:25:48 »

Yep, very good perspectives here.

Admittedly, I'm not a very good academic when it comes to these things either. I'm approaching it from two angles- I want to get out there and have fun, and I want to have practical knowledge that enhances my appreciation for the historical toys I collect. Whether I'm doing it exactly as described in the manual is secondary, as long as I get an understanding of what I'm doing and how it fits into the historical context.

I understand why people are very protective of their approaches. But personally I'm not into the whole "walled garden" thing, and am happy to see a lot of different groups have their own unique emphasis.

Technically we're all on the same side, since we're all taking the parts of history we like and trying to revive them. It's just that some folks are trying to be as accurate as they can in every possible way, and others are taking the bits they like and discarding the rest. There's nothing wrong with this, and in fact I think it provides a wider range of options for people to find the level of involvement that suits them.
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Ian

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Re: Gotta get this off my chest.
« Reply #41 on: 2012-02-29, 01:41:02 »
ya as much as anyone wants to put it as far as the sca, living history, fantasy etc, we're all LARPS. i dont care what people say it's true. we all play a game and dress up. whether it's to honor vets, get rid of reality or what have you. just different names and different faces.

I guess this is where the big difference lies between all the groups you listed and HEMA/WMA. It's first and foremost a martial art.  It encourages no role play, no personas, and many schools don't require any period clothing unless used for purely functional purposes. That's why they can get upset when someone comes along and suggests to them how to improve upon their martial art when that person is coming from a role-play perspective.

The line is skewed only because we view WMA/HEMA in the same light as the other mentioned groups because they use swords and other medieval weapons.  Do you look at Kung Fu or Karate schools as LARPs just because they wear traditional garb?  No... because they are martial arts schools, teaching a combat sport.  So it is with HEMA/WMA school. They really shouldn't be lumped in with Living History, SCA, Boffer LARPs etc, because the aim is to teach a combat sport, not role play or be a persona etc...  It gets blurry here because the SCA has a sporting aspect within an overall role-playing community. 

But you have to be respectful of the WMA crowd's perspective here.  the analogy would be if a Kendo school was approached by a group of people who re-enact Samurai era history and suggested technique to the Kendo guys. I think we can see here, that it simply doesn't make sense, and the Kendo school might even be dismissive of what the re-enactors are trying go say.  So it is with the WMA community and the SCA. Let people have their fun, but don't be surprised if one group doesn't want to listen to the other.  The point is WMA, although historical in context, is a martial art, not a LARP, and I think that's the point that people are overlooking when it comes to this particular topic.
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SirNathanQ

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Re: Gotta get this off my chest.
« Reply #42 on: 2012-02-29, 02:18:07 »
Thank you Ian, truly you are among the most eloquent of the Brethren here.

I aim to at least try all of it. I do WMA because I collect swords, and I want to learn how to use them. To really make good on my persuit, because my aim in all this is to be a modern-day knight. As I wear armour to materialize what I hope I show through my person, I learn WMA to flesh out what I've already materialized through the pysical object of the sword. One step closer to being (as close as possible) a real knight.

I want to try SCA, to give experience to my understanding of group combat and strategy. No other place you can have battles in the thousands with medieval weapons anymore.
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Sir Edward

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Re: Gotta get this off my chest.
« Reply #43 on: 2012-02-29, 02:56:43 »
We can always trust Ian to cut to the truth with laser accuracy. Awesome. :)
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Sir Brian

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Re: Gotta get this off my chest.
« Reply #44 on: 2012-02-29, 03:02:24 »
Truly I envy your youthful enthusiasm Sir Nathan and it certainly serves you well for I have never met a knight as young as you with such boldness tempered with wisdom beyond your years. I do not hold such lofty ambitions as you to try everything as I squandered the best years of my body on more baser pursuits which left me some vague and scattered memories along with a far less resilient physique.  :-\

The differences between SCA, WMA/HEMA, LARP or REENACTMENT groups really are beyond my consideration as I simply do not have the available active lifespan left to 'sample' them all. Suffice to say I've rediscovered that I enjoy hitting people again and the best part is that it is manageably safe to do so with the WMA group I train with.  ;)
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