Sword and heater shield.

[Sir Gerard de Rodes]

I`ve just noticed in the photo at the top of this thread,

http://modernchivalry.org/forum/index.php/topic,1353.0.html

 there`s a chap wearing a small shield over his upper arm too.
G.

[Sir William]

Ah, the gent in the buff coloured padded gambeson wielding the polearm...still think that's pretty cool.

[Thorsteinn]

Syr Gemini of Degrendelous Martial Arts has much to say on the heater BTW.

[John]

Heaters are popular here in NZ... and unfortunately to fight safely means to avoid some really nice martial techniques . However I quite like using a polearm against a shield user, doing a shot to the head, then a shot to the leg. It either works or they get very tired arms, and then they make a mistake . The flip side is that a polearm user is vulnerable to being bound up by the shield. But this may not apply in your sparring system, as rules change the techniques that work. Tournament is not war. Having said that Sir William Marshall was talented in both, so maybe there is some crossover?

Thrusting past a shield, hooking it on the retraction and then thrusting again on a new line can work well too. Works even better with a buddy.

Hopefully someday someone discovers medieval manuscript buried somewhere. It'd be nice to know what was taught, and if our speculations are anywhere near the mark.

[Sir Gerard de Rodes]

Here`s a nice little image;

http://www.chronique.com/Library/Libryimg/foot_fighting.jpg

G.

[John]

Interesting that they are shown with swords. They appear to be wearing plate legs, with a bascinet and mail. Possibly with plate under their jackets? Do you think they considered swords a viable option for killing each other? Is it a duel, tournament or war? I wonder why they don't have plate on their arms?

What document did that illustration comes from?

[Lord Dane]

Well it's only paint! Besides don't you think our shields maybe a little too pristine? 

Ugh. Those charges were a pain to do, and they'd scrape right off. I'd rather get a second shield to beat up.

Then again, I still have my templar shield. I wouldn't mind beating that one up. It's the one whose photo I used to make the various shield images used as logos on this site (and on the cafepress shop), including the little icon next to the URL in your web browser.

Rule of SCA thumb, one heater for show & one ready to go. They are not meant to be pretty all the time. Feel free to wreck them on an opponent in conjunction with any one-handed instrument of choice. I will happily fight with round and/or heater though I prefer a round shield in actual SCA combat. The heraldry paint of my shield will look just as nice imprinted or transferred upon my opponent's armor. I'm sure Lord Rodney can relate. 

[Lord Dane]

Good and valid point. I wonder just how structured and frequent that sort of training is for law enforcement crowd control?

I'll answer that one first hand, Sir Brian. Those techniques are now common place in most law enforcement training academies especially focused for crowd control although they will always vary from agency to agency as to what works best. Specialized teams use them more frequently but they have been become standard for most police practicioners / line officers.

I would like to see more uniformity amongst my brethren in what is most efficient in the role we play. These drills need to be planned, prepared, and rapidly deployed with the utmost discipline and efficiency under the most stressful situations. Romans did it best but unfortunately their enemies caught on & mastered their trade secrets of what made them elite. 

[Sir William]

Truly, but the Romans were facing opposing armies, and you're having to deal with the unruly rabble.  I imagine some of those smash and bash techniques aren't used quite as vociferously as they might have done in antiquity- if only because you're not trying to kill these people, just get them back into line, so to speak.

All that to say, the mob probably isn't going to analyze and effectively combat your present tactical situation.  Hope not, anyways.

[Lord Dane]

Truly, but the Romans were facing opposing armies, and you're having to deal with the unruly rabble.  I imagine some of those smash and bash techniques aren't used quite as vociferously as they might have done in antiquity- if only because you're not trying to kill these people, just get them back into line, so to speak.

All that to say, the mob probably isn't going to analyze and effectively combat your present tactical situation.  Hope not, anyways.

Unruly rabble most often is stupid drunks just like Real Romans.

[Joshua Santana]

After reading this thread I am in near agreement with all of you.

I must admit that SCA Sword and Board/Heater Shield combat is fun and looks like fun, though actual documentation is greatly needed.

There is the Poem of the Pell (12th Century) which is the evidence of what Sword and Heater shield probably looked like.  I suggest we research this and experiment with the text. 

On the other hand, I do see the shield used as a piece of armor (learned this from NHSC) and the movements would be tight to afford maximum protection. 

[Sir Vander Linde]

 


I have a few other photos but my internet is really bad right now 

[Joshua Santana]

Very nice!  I presume the image is from the Codex Manesse?

[Sir William]

Looks like he did not hold his shield as high as he should have.

[Sir Edward]

Very nice!  I presume the image is from the Codex Manesse?

Yes, I believe it is.