Sword and heater shield.

[Joshua Santana]

That is what I thought, and after examining the image, I can say this is some evidence of arming sword having the capability to break or crush Helms.

I also see both combatants using two different stances, one which is narrow with the left foot forward and the other combatant standing with his left foot forward but in a wide stance.  This is very crucial in reconstructing Medieval Sword and Heater Shield combat. 

[Sir Vander Linde]

Yes it is from Codex Manesse. I found it interesting not because of the foot work or even the sword cleaving the helm but because of the shields, one is held and the other is on the arm. Could some shields have a transitional form of use? Such as being capable of being held and when needed slid up the arm in such a way to create greater leverage with out messing up tempo?
Also I have a few images of shield work I’m trying to get down in pixel number from Codex Wallerstein & Gladiatoria. They are to large currently to post.

[Sir James A]

I also see both combatants using two different stances, one which is narrow with the left foot forward and the other combatant standing with his left foot forward but in a wide stance.  This is very crucial in reconstructing Medieval Sword and Heater Shield combat. 

Be careful not to take the artwork as proof of different stances. They may simply be in the transition between stances, but not in a stance itself. Best to look at proper fechtbuchs, but since we don't have any for that style/period, the art work is good to see at least some of how they fought, even if we can't reconstruct it entirely.

Yes it is from Codex Manesse. I found it interesting not because of the foot work or even the sword cleaving the helm but because of the shields, one is held and the other is on the arm. Could some shields have a transitional form of use? Such as being capable of being held and when needed slid up the arm in such a way to create greater leverage with out messing up tempo?
Also I have a few images of shield work I’m trying to get down in pixel number from Codex Wallerstein & Gladiatoria. They are to large currently to post.

The shield is of interest. It may be a separate strap (guige strap) for carrying over the shoulder, or it may be a looser arm strap that he just slid up his arm, or possibly some odd evolution of going from the ailettes (square shoulder pieces) to a shield that hangs higher up on the arm? Hard to say, but very interesting!

You can post a link to the picture, if the pixels are too high, instead of embedding it.

[Joshua Santana]

Be careful not to take the artwork as proof of different stances. They may simply be in the transition between stances, but not in a stance itself. Best to look at proper fechtbuchs, but since we don't have any for that style/period, the art work is good to see at least some of how they fought, even if we can't reconstruct it entirely.

Thank you Sir James, will take that in consideration.

he shield is of interest. It may be a separate strap (guige strap) for carrying over the shoulder, or it may be a looser arm strap that he just slid up his arm, or possibly some odd evolution of going from the ailettes (square shoulder pieces) to a shield that hangs higher up on the arm? Hard to say, but very interesting!

Yep. 

[Lord Tristin]

Sword and Shield is one of the styles of combat  I feel truly comfortable with. I have practiced on my own and with anyone  I can find for years. Heater shields make excellent offensive weapons,  I have used two and no weapons per se on several occasions. Shields on an edge hit are formidable attacks. try blocking an attack with your sword, stepping in and striking the edge to your opponents forearm holding their weapon. follow with a shield bash and downward shoulder strike.

[Thorsteinn]

Sword and Shield is one of the styles of combat  I feel truly comfortable with. I have practiced on my own and with anyone  I can find for years. Heater shields make excellent offensive weapons,  I have used two and no weapons per se on several occasions. Shields on an edge hit are formidable attacks. try blocking an attack with your sword, stepping in and striking the edge to your opponents forearm holding their weapon. follow with a shield bash and downward shoulder strike.

Now you can't say that and then say you aren't heading to BotN or the Lauren Tourney some day.

[Lord Tristin]

I am new to tourneys and re enactment, however  Ihave trained formally as in martial arts and medieval sword training with others in sparrign and whatnot. I love the idea of tourneys, just never been to one. I live in southern Wisconsin near the Illinois border, where is a close one? I guess  Iwould need to buy or build armor and whatnot.

[Thorsteinn]

I am new to tourneys and re enactment, however  I have trained formally as in martial arts and medieval sword training with others in sparring and what not. I love the idea of tourneys, just never been to one. I live in southern Wisconsin near the Illinois border, where is a close one? I guess  I would need to buy or build armor and what not.

Your local SCA group can be found here: http://www.northshield.org/Branches/Search.aspx?new

HEMA Alliance: http://www.communitywalk.com/THE-HEMA-ALLIANCE-Training-Partner-Finder

ACL/BOTN: http://usaknights.org/

[Lord Tristin]

Thank you Thorsteinn. Very helpful

[B. Patricius]

Lord Tristan,

after reading your post about the moves you've made with your shield, oh man, you're going to love SCA tournaments.  However, on a note of "safety" shield bashing, or for that matter anything offensive with a shield, is not really allowed on the tournament field.  On melee battles, pretty much anything is fair.  All I can see is someone who thinks the "wrap" is the end-all-be-all move getting handed in a melee by your shield techniques!

www.armourarchive.org (if it's okay to post a link to them) is a great group of die-hard SCAdians who strive to "get it right" within the sport of the SCA.  Most SCAdians I've met have called them a bit "extreme" but that's part of the fun of it, SCA caters to a large variety of people's interests from Genericelt/vikings to people who go way in depth in their persona and garb down to a decade with only extant examples via museum and effigies. 

Beyond that, the Codex Manesse source is EPIC!  I've been primarily studying I:33 as that's the closest to what I'm trying to learn, crusades techniques with a kite or at the most advanced, a heater and transitional armor. 

here's something else I've found.  It's SCA based, and definitely tertiary although most of their references seem to be quite good: http://www.threeriver.org/marshal/tourney_1.shtml pretty good starting point for anyone interested in 12th century, but beyond that, it's the illuminations they use that I wish I could find elsewhere...

[Sir Wolf]

lol the AA isn't all SCAians i was there when it was Matt's virtual anvil while I ran Arador Armour Library

[B. Patricius]

lol the AA isn't all SCAians i was there when it was Matt's virtual anvil while I ran Arador Armour Library

Sir Wolf, you sir ran Arador Armour Library!?! You good sir, are exactly why I am into all of this.  I knew it was possible, but it was finding Arador Armour Library last summer that showed me how to make it happen.  For that, I truly thank you, sir.  *formal salute and bow*

[Sir Wolf]

now i didnt start it. i ran it during college when the original guy backed out. vistar/eric ran it after me and then it stopped.

[B. Patricius]

thanks for the clarification Sir Wolf.  Still, it's greatly appreciated whatever part you had in it.  The armourarchive was a forum with some patterns, it was arador that had them in an easy to follow for complete n00bs.  It was very helpful in the beginning when I was teaching myself from scratch.

[Sir James A]

Yep, AA isn't just SCAdians, some of us are over there too that don't do anything SCA. SCAdians are common there, but it's not *only* them - and many of the discussions aren't SCA specific either.