Sword and heater shield.

[Sir Brian]

Good and valid point. I wonder just how structured and frequent that sort of training is for law enforcement crowd control?

[Frater de Beaumanoir]

I can tell you that back in the mid 80s, we had to do the training (8 hours), once every month while I was stationed in Panama. Now it's a lost art, unless maybe with the Military Police. As for Law Enforcement, maybe covered like we did, unless you're in an area prone to demonstrations and riots like areas in Europe or the Middle East I would guess.

[Sir Rodney]

Just a thought here, but has anyone looked at the resources that Law Enforcement agencies and the military use when conducting riot control operations. The shield there (much like the Roman scutum or Norman kite in size at times) as offensive options with smash and trap, along with the manipulation of the baton (sword) in support or being supported.

Just my .02 cents. 

Short answer: "Yes"

Long answer:  One of my SCA mercenary company brothers is a police sergeant in the Twin Cities and a retired MP.  He has frequently commented that police riot shields and batons are handled very much in the same manner as SCA war shields (scutums, etc.) and rattan swords.

You may recall that we hosted the last Republican National Convention (RNC) in St. Paul.  During the preparations, a call was put out for volunteers on the riot control teams.  My friend quickly signed up for the training.  As it turns out, his shield and baton skills were deemed a little too "enthusiastic" by the trainers and he was relegated to a supervisory role.  This broke his heart as he truly wanted to be on the front line, just like every other summer weekend! 

True story. 

[Frater de Beaumanoir]

 

[SirNathanQ]

I know the riot police and such actually use SCA guys to instruct them at times.

And while the riot shield is believable for a scutum or a Kite, a heater, even a large one is much smaller. At the least, you would be leaving your legs exposed.

And then there's edge alignment. A police baton would be quite usable for a mace though.

[Sir William]

I do believe that the heater shields were used primarily on horseback...as you stated, on foot it leaves a bit to be desired in terms of coverage.  Not to say it was never used on foot, only that it wouldn't seem to be the best option available.

[SirNathanQ]

The 14th century was when the Heater Shield as we know it was at it's most popular.
The 14th century was a time when lots of Knights were dismounting to fight.
I think it would leave a lot to be desired if used in the same manner as a scutum, similar to the way a buckler would leave much to be desired in place of a rotella.

I think while it's a compromise between movement and protection.

[Sir William]

I would have to give way to those more knowledgeable as I have no experience fighting with a scutum; but I have viewed many of the SCA vids posted on YT and noted some interesting shield shapes being used besides the rectangular scutum.  Not sure if what I've seen in the SCA would translate well onto a battlefield, as they are not actively trying to do one another in like you would in a battle.  Wrap shots in particular could get you into a world of trouble as those exposed elements would be attacked first.

[Sir Gerard de Rodes]

We fight with heater shield and hand weapons quite often. We found the full sized 2`X3` ones to be quite cumbersome.
As I make our shields, I played around with slightly different sizes and strapping layouts and ended up with a great,light and usable shield. It is strapped so that the fore-arm sits behind its length and the tip can be used as a nice aid to punching  It can also be strapped to the upper arm so defending the left shoulder but leaving the left hand free.

I don`t recall seeing any contemporary illustrations of heater shields being used in foot combat though. If I come accross anything I will post here.
G.

[Sir Rodney]

We fight with heater shield and hand weapons quite often. We found the full sized 2`X3` ones to be quite cumbersome.
As I make our shields, I played around with slightly different sizes and strapping layouts and ended up with a great,light and usable shield. It is strapped so that the fore-arm sits behind its length and the tip can be used as a nice aid to punching  It can also be strapped to the upper arm so defending the left shoulder but leaving the left hand free.

I don`t recall seeing any contemporary illustrations of heater shields being used in foot combat though. If I come accross anything I will post here.
G.

What dimensions did you settle on?  Would you mind posting photographs of the front and back of a heater you made?  I need to make another heater for SCA combat (mine's about had it) and I'd like to go the historically plausible route vs. purely a sport shield.

[Sir Gerard de Rodes]

We fight with heater shield and hand weapons quite often. We found the full sized 2`X3` ones to be quite cumbersome.
As I make our shields, I played around with slightly different sizes and strapping layouts and ended up with a great,light and usable shield. It is strapped so that the fore-arm sits behind its length and the tip can be used as a nice aid to punching  It can also be strapped to the upper arm so defending the left shoulder but leaving the left hand free.

I don`t recall seeing any contemporary illustrations of heater shields being used in foot combat though. If I come accross anything I will post here.
G.

What dimensions did you settle on?  Would you mind posting photographs of the front and back of a heater you made?  I need to make another heater for SCA combat (mine's about had it) and I'd like to go the historically plausible route vs. purely a sport shield.

Of course, here is a photo of the first one I did for myself;
Front;
http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee200/JOBO_028/Craigs%20Shields/?action=view&current=Derodes2.jpg
Rear;
http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee200/JOBO_028/Craigs%20Shields/?action=view&current=SwordSheildrear.jpg

The timber is made to be 18mm thick then it has a steel plate over the front, then 2 layers of heavy canvas. This makes it very very heavy to use as a shield on an armoured arm 
The later ones I have made have been 12mm timber with one layer of thick canvas and no plate....much more usable.

The overall dimensions are 600mm X 400mm.

G.

[Sir William]

It is strapped so that the fore-arm sits behind its length and the tip can be used as a nice aid to punching  It can also be strapped to the upper arm so defending the left shoulder but leaving the left hand free.
G.

I like the sound of that VERY much.  Love what you've shown us too...what material do you use as the covering?  It looks shiny almost...or is that the paint?

[Sir Gerard de Rodes]

It is strapped so that the fore-arm sits behind its length and the tip can be used as a nice aid to punching  It can also be strapped to the upper arm so defending the left shoulder but leaving the left hand free.
G.

I like the sound of that VERY much.  Love what you've shown us too...what material do you use as the covering?  It looks shiny almost...or is that the paint?

Most certainly the fresh paint lol.
I use as thick a linen/canvas as I can get hold of. I overlap this at least 3 times at the edge. Sometimes the customer asks for rawhide edging which really adds to the longevity of the shield.

G.

[Sir William]

What sort of paint do you use?  I like the look of it, love the idea of being able to strap it higher if need be even better.

[Sir Gerard de Rodes]

Most of the shields I make for the group are classed as consumable as they get such a battering, therefore I only use cheap spray paint, masked to get colour changes and stencils for lions etc.
That`s also why I bolt straps and handles on rather than authentic rivets, so the straps etc can be used again when the shield is useless. They look great from where the MOPS are sitting lol
The woman in the photo`s, painting my posh, later norman shield is Lou who runs "Knight ware", I`m not sure what paint she uses. I can find out for you if you wish.
G.