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Author Topic: My vid on longsword stance.  (Read 4138 times)

Thorsteinn

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My vid on longsword stance.
« on: 2014-07-19, 00:08:26 »


Hey all, what are your thoughts?
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Sir Edward

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Re: My vid on longsword stance.
« Reply #1 on: 2014-07-22, 20:05:47 »
Just some thoughts, from a Liechtenauer HEMA persective:

For the low guard you start with, we call that Phlug. On the left side, the Liechtenauer way to do it, is with the front-edge up, instead of down. You can do this by using your left hand to turn the pommel a little and let it roll in your right hand, thus keeping your wrist straight. By keeping the wrist straight, you have a lot more strength against an attack to that lower quadrant. Plus, you can brace the blade with your thumb for added stability, and you now already have the sword in the right orientation in your hand to wind straight to Ochs. On the other hand, with the front edge facing down, you have to bend your wrist, or roll the sword the other way, which is more awkward and leaves you less prepared for moving to other guards.

When talking about the parries, you're already doing those sorts of motions too, just without rolling it in the hand (and parrying with the edge is just fine, IMHO).

The second guard you mention, is one we call Nebenhut. It's not considered a primary guard, but rather a secondary one. Meaning, you won't stand there for any length of time (because it's not directly threatening the opponent), but it has its uses, as you illustrate. There are moments where you're in the right-side nebenhut (and later with some of the other guards too), but with the right foot forward. That leaves you a little twisted. Generally the rule of thumb for us is to keep the sword on the side of the back foot, and do the necessary footwork with our cuts to make that generally be true. Obviously there are always exceptions, and sometimes you just deal with it if you get a little twisted.

After that, you have the sword on your shoulder. This is similar to Vom Tag in our system, but more like the sport-version of it from Meyer. The martial version is to have the sword pointed up (hence the name Vom Tag which means "from the roof"), but Meyer has it cocked back real far like you showed.

Then when you point it forward toward the floor, that's one we call Alber ("the fool").

After that, pointing the sword up, near the shoulder and over the head, both of those are "Vom Tag" to us.

The only Liechtenauer primary guard you skipped was Ochs, which is held up near the forehead with the blade pointed straight at your opponents face or upper chest. There are two versions of it, one with the crossguard being vertical, and the other with it horizontal. With it horizontal, it's the proper Ochs position to protect your head and to perform Zwerchau cuts. With the guard vertical, it just means you cut straight up into that position, and aren't planning to stay there.
« Last Edit: 2014-07-22, 20:10:22 by Sir Edward »
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Thorsteinn

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Re: My vid on longsword stance.
« Reply #2 on: 2014-07-22, 20:40:25 »
Matt Easton goes into a vid on the Fiore Guards here:

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Sir Edward

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Re: My vid on longsword stance.
« Reply #3 on: 2014-07-22, 20:58:25 »

Yeah, those Italians love to have lots of little variants, all with their own names. :)
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Re: My vid on longsword stance.
« Reply #4 on: 2014-07-22, 21:06:27 »
Gracie. :) Nice post.
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Thorsteinn

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Re: My vid on longsword stance.
« Reply #5 on: 2014-07-22, 21:16:37 »
And to the Italians it's the German system that is stodgy and overly complicated.

Really I've noticed that the 3.5 Fiore Stabile guards, Vom Tag, and Posta di Falcone  are the ones used most. and that only Long Tail, Boars Tooth/Middle Iron Door, and Ochs are the non-intuitive ones.
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Sir Edward

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Re: My vid on longsword stance.
« Reply #6 on: 2014-07-23, 13:59:32 »

Heh, I find that amusing, since to me, the German system comes off as rather simple in concept. It's also delightfully medieval, in the sense that if a bunch of things are mostly similar, they must be the same thing, so they're lumped together. ;)

One thing that's cool about the German manuscripts too, is that for the most part, they're not always written with the approach of "this is the way it must be done", but rather, "here's something that works, try this"

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Sir Brian

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Re: My vid on longsword stance.
« Reply #7 on: 2014-07-23, 14:14:44 »
The Italian system also seems to favor a thrust more which is fine but I donít consider thrusts to have as much duel ending probabilities as a solid cut does except of course with harnischfechten where the thrust is king! ;)
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Naythan

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Re: My vid on longsword stance.
« Reply #8 on: 2014-07-24, 20:42:59 »
Thank you for the post.
also, I am finding no time for any longsword practice. Luckily it turns out there is a place about a half hour away in center city. It is also probably a 100% better Idea to go there and learn it from someone that knows it then by myself. 
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Sir Brian

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Re: My vid on longsword stance.
« Reply #9 on: 2014-07-28, 11:47:40 »
The Italian system also seems to favor a thrust more which is fine but I donít consider thrusts to have as much duel ending probabilities as a solid cut does except of course with harnischfechten where the thrust is king! ;)

Well since reviewing my bouts in the Longpoint finals where Mike Forrest did an excellent job of pointing out my foolishness of not giving the thrust the proper respect it is due. My instructor Larry Tom of course was not remiss to bring this to my attention yesterday and made it a primary aspect of our lesson and drills. Suffice to say; contending with a thrust from plug is far more manageable for me. ;)
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Sir James A

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Re: My vid on longsword stance.
« Reply #10 on: 2014-07-28, 19:42:23 »
The Italian system also seems to favor a thrust more which is fine but I donít consider thrusts to have as much duel ending probabilities as a solid cut does except of course with harnischfechten where the thrust is king! ;)



:D
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Sir Edward

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Re: My vid on longsword stance.
« Reply #11 on: 2014-07-29, 12:57:54 »
The Italian system also seems to favor a thrust more which is fine but I donít consider thrusts to have as much duel ending probabilities as a solid cut does except of course with harnischfechten where the thrust is king! ;)



:D

lol

...which of course, was a line taken from here:  :)


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Thorsteinn

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Re: My vid on longsword stance.
« Reply #12 on: 2014-08-02, 23:49:38 »




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scott2978

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Re: My vid on longsword stance.
« Reply #13 on: 2014-09-11, 06:14:51 »
I long for a HEMA chapter nearby... in the meantime I wish I could find more instructional videos like these. Nice.

Thorsteinn

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Re: My vid on longsword stance.
« Reply #14 on: 2014-09-15, 01:08:44 »
I long for a HEMA chapter nearby... in the meantime I wish I could find more instructional videos like these. Nice.

Got a request? Have you looked at my SCA/HEMA playlist (and followed the extensions to see the vids there)? Watched Scallagrim, Schola Gladiatoria, & Lindybeige?
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