Armor Series

[Sir Douglas]

For what it's worth, I got my dad watching these now, too. He loves them.

[Ian]

For what it's worth, I got my dad watching these now, too. He loves them.

Nice!  We'll get him in armor one day!

[Ian]

Cuisses

[Ian]

Historical leg suspension:

[Sir Wolf]

man.... these suck. the narrator's voice grinds my nerves. and he seems all cock sure of himself. i bet he works at mcdonalds during the week.















































































































 

[Sir Rodney]

I’m just irritated with the narrator’s beard as it’s much nicer than mine.   

[Sir Patrick]

So if the lenedier did not come about until the later 14th century, what was the suspension method for an early 14th century set up consisting of maille chauses, cops, and shynabalds?

[Ian]

So if the lenedier did not come about until the later 14th century, what was the suspension method for an early 14th century set up consisting of maille chauses, cops, and shynabalds?

The sources for the lendenier go all the way back to the late 12th century (on the early side of the Swedish will's dating), but 13th century for sure.  The King's Mirror is dated 1250 and doesn't state the name lendenier specifically but that's what it's talking about.  The two poems I mentioned are both 13th century.

A Swedish will from somewhere 1172-1280
... infirmus, animi mei tamen compos, testamentum meum in hunc modum disposuj ordinandum. In primis monachis Noue vallis, apud quos locum eligio sepulture, confero meliorem equm meum bene faleratum et loricam meam cum galea, spaldenaer, plato, lendenaer, stikchata husu ...

They're even mentioned late 15th century.

Some form of the lendenier existed from at least the late 12th century through the 15th century from what we can document.

So yes, a lendenier is more than appropriate for your kit's era.  Did something in the video make you think it was only a late 14th century thing?

**I've added an attached word document with all the sources I'm currently aware of for the lendenier or something like it**

[Sir Patrick]

(Face palm) Was I even watching that video?!?  Thanks for repeating for us slower children 😉

[Ian]

(Face palm) Was I even watching that video?!?  Thanks for repeating for us slower children 😉

lol, no I just wanted to make sure I didn't make it too confusing in the video.  After a week or two when I go back and watch something that I thought made sense when I said it, it can suddenly be like "what the heck was I saying???"   The last thing I want is for something I said to end up causing more confusion because I didn't explain it well enough.

There's enough bad information and confusion out there that I don't want to add to the noise.

[Sir Edward]

Yeah, that can happen a lot. It's easy to think you're being 100% clear, but might have skipped a key piece of information that's required for people to follow and stay on the same page. I've run into that more times than I can count, when trying to explain things to people too.

[Ian]

Mail

[Henrik Granlid]

Another great video!

I've been wondering a bit wether a punched and riveted shirt qould actually look more historical than an all riveted, even if the construction itself would be less authentic. I seem to recall several places having their punched rings be slightly thicker than their riveted ones, although I could be wrong.

For an all riveted setup, what's your personal preference in ring size?

How would you say that the fauld is best suspended? Should it be pointed to the top of the lendenier? Held in place by waist shape and maybe even some help from the cuirass? Any thoughts on this?

Also, lastly, because I know cameras love to play tricks on the eyes when it comes to maille, what is the finish on your maille? I've come to realise that my black aventail looks jarring against blank maille on the shelf, but on camera and in daylight, it seems to have a similar finish to yours.

[Ian]

Thanks.

It's not just a matter of the thickness.  Modern flat rings, punched or riveted usually have almost 90* corners as they transition from the face of the ring to the edges of the ring.  The edges themselves are also usually perfectly flat.  A lot of historical flattened mail, because it was originally a round ring, the edges retain their roundness, and the corners are also very rounded.  Historical solid ring mail varies though, because some of the metallurgical and grain analysis seem to suggest that some was literally punched, and some were welded closed.  If a ring is punched from a sheet, the grain of the steel should all run parallel, if it was a welded ring then the grain follows the circle of the ring as it was bent around a mandrel.  There are examples of both in historical mail, so it's not really universal.

All my mail is 9mm, but again, historical mail varies a lot in ring size.  I don't really have a preference.  I don't think that 6mm is universally more accurate than 9mm or 8mm or anything like that.  In historical examples there's even variance within the same garment of ring size sometimes.

When you say fauld are you meaning the mail fauld?  I would probably just use a thin piece of deerskin, whip the fauld to the bottom edge of the deer, and strap the leather like a belt, 3 or 4 inches wide.  If I was using my leather lendenier, I might even just whip the mail directly to the bottom edge of that.  I've never worn mail skirts, so I don't have any practical experience with them.  Those methods would probably be my first go at it though.

That mail shirt is just an oiled finish.  It's usually slathered in firearm solvent/oil too.  I hate handling my mail...    My new helmet's aventail has darker mail.  I don't know of any evidence for actual blackened mail in Europe.  Most of the artwork is explained as tarnished silver leaf.  Some seems like it was intentional.  Mail really isn't my thing though.  It's really a subject that requires its own study entirely separate from plate armor, and it's something I admittedly haven't studied enough.  Whether mail was ever blackened in Europe or not is still fiercely debated.

[Sir Patrick]

Great video as always!  Man the new guys sure have it easy!  I remember trying to figure this stuff out pre-Internet...