The Fight Book (National Geographic)

[Sir Wolf]

i missed it. got sick last night with a head cold and the world was in a blur

[Sir William]

The narrator said "platemail" at one point, and I cringed. John Clements also said "chainmail", but these days it seems you have to say that for people to know what you're talking about.

Unfortunately, this is true.   If you just say 'mail' they are likely to think you're referring to the postal variety, just to be funny for some, but for others - that would be their actual thought process.  lol

[Sir Edward]

John Clements posted his blog entry on the whole filming process. He couldn't post it until the show aired.

http://www.historicalfencing.com/Talhoffers-Fight-Book-Blog.html

He mentions that the director wanted him to say "chainmail", and he didn't fight it because, quite frankly, they were hired to just do a job.

I also though this part was interesting:

" I have to say, when it comes to facing armor I thought if I had to I could take on an armored opponent while unarmored and use greater agility and speed to get at his weak spots with thrusts. No chance. Aaron knows how to fight in armor and facing him was quite intimidating, even without the wet ground and drizzling rain and restrictions on how much we could step and move in that confined space, I know I could not have gotten a thing in on him. We were using the Albion feder-sword blunts for this and had warmed up with some free play in between takes.  I could sense the mass and power of the armor bearing down on me. I couldn't see a single opening or figure out how I could have gotten a single thrust in the right place. Meanwhile, I could see Aaron detecting this and becoming more aggressive with his own thrusts and half-swording strikes.  "

It's still possible of course, but I think it's cool that he was humbled by it. Speed and agility are only part of the equation. If the visor is down, the armored guy has a lot less visibility. And I also know from experience that if you're not used to fighting in it, you can get tired pretty fast, even though it's not really slowing you down much. It's just simply costing more energy to do everything.

[Sir James A]

I was expecting much more of armored/hand-held weapon combat than the siege machines and diving suit, but it was still interesting nonetheless. I was able to record it but my PC isn't accepting the audio very well, and it glitches every 5-10 seconds. Not sure if it's the drivers, VCR, tape, or what.

I was quite surprised to hear John Clements make that comment; he seemed almost humbled, and not nearly as arrogant as some make him out to be. I think he was even one of the three who did the air pumping for the diving suit.

I think that two experienced fighters, armored vs unarmored, then armored probably has the advantage. An inexperienced armorer fighter vs an experienced unarmored one, I think could be a different story. Having two knowledgeable guys go at it was very interesting. They should do more of it for us to see.

Edit: I get the same impression about "chainmail" and "platemail". If you're on TV and may have a random audience, using the more well-known word, even if it's "wrong", seems to be the way to go.

Imagine saying "I own a white harness" to someone outside of our interest:

Them: "A harness? Like a man girdle?"
You: "No, a harness. It's a full suit of armor."
Them: "Wait, you wear suits?"
You: "No, it means it covers your whole body."
Them: "And it's white? Like a storm trooper?"
You: "No, it's steel. Silver. It's just called a white harness because of the era it was made and amount it covered."
Them: "Why?"
You: "Because... well, I don't know. But it looks spiffy."

I usually say "plate mail" because of that.

[Sir Edward]

His writing style can definitely be very arrogant at times, but there was a lot less of that in his blog about this. That was good to see.

I was disappointed by the lack of the combat techniques covered as well, and apparently so was JC according to his blog. They filmed entire sequences for dueling with shields, and messer techniques, none of which were used. They instead focused on a handful of strange plates in the manuscript, despite the fact that the bulk of the book is about combat.

I wasn't happy with the "crayfish" segment at all. I think it was entirely speculation. Not to mention, what they were suggesting for use in a castle gateway would require alterations that I don't think anyone has ever recorded finding in historic castles. There's so little to go on, I think it's a real waste that they spent so much time on it rather than something that would be really cool, like the messer combat.

I understand about the use of "chainmail". But really, if you said "plate armor" instead of "platemail", I don't think it would be lost on anyone.

[Sir William]

Sir Edward- someone, somewhere would go home and tell his friends he met someone who used dinner plates for armor.  I swear it.  lol

[Sir Patrick]

I was disappointed overall with the program.  It seemed more like an episode of "Ancient Discoveries" than anything else.  I liked the fighting sequences, but felt there weren't enough.  Bummer to hear they shot a lot more and didn't use them.

[Sir William]

I'll have to see if I can get this on OnDemand.

[Sir James A]

I wasn't happy with the "crayfish" segment at all. I think it was entirely speculation. Not to mention, what they were suggesting for use in a castle gateway would require alterations that I don't think anyone has ever recorded finding in historic castles. There's so little to go on, I think it's a real waste that they spent so much time on it rather than something that would be really cool, like the messer combat.

I thought it was very strange, too. The only reasonably close half-guess I could approximate would be based around "murder holes", that if I remember right were holes around the portcullis area so that defenders could spear or shoot at attackers. I just don't see the "crayfish" being used like that. It's as if they played too many Tomb Raider or Zelda games. The tank and other designs were feasible, especially since they showed a functional medieval diving suit ... but the crayfish ... just not sure about that. Doesn't seem like the materials and labor it would require would be even remotely efficient, in cost or application.

I'll have to see if I can get this on OnDemand.

I'm going to see if I can get my dad to dump my tape of it to digital format this weekend. It's not HD or anything, but it's at least watchable.

[Sir William]

Sir James, that'd be awesome!

[Sir Edward]

BTW, it's on youtube:  (they divided it up strangely, as part 4 is only 22 seconds, I think because they wanted to run right up to a 15 minute limit on the other three)

Part 1:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESZGWiHBbv4[/youtube]


Part 2:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wwILFEN-sg&feature=related[/youtube]


Part 3:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=852OWMNYSu8&feature=related[/youtube]


Part 4:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on0HTC93llI&feature=related[/youtube]

[Sir William]

Oh boy, something to look at while working on Monday!

[Sir James A]

Thanks Sir Edward. Audio on mine came out poorly. I found a copy via torrent, but was reprimanded on another forum for posting about it due to copyright issues.

[Thorsteinn]

I watched it and thought it was... OK. JC comment about the effectiveness of a Mordhau surprising him surprised me. It isn't called a murder stroke for nothing.

But anyway... Is it just me or is Mike Loades like the Rick Bayless of WMA?

-Ivan

[Sir James A]

I'm not sure who Rick Bayless is, but I like Mike Loades enthusiasm and presentation style.