Gutter Arm Questions

[Sir Patrick]

This effigy is the inspiration for my early 14th century kit.  I have already made the ailettes, but have a couple of questions regarding the gutter arms.
1.  Is there a shoulder cop in a gutter arm/ailette set-up, and if so, how is the combination pointed?

2.  Is the elbow in gutter arms of the period articulated, or free-floating?

http://www.gothiceye.com/popup.asp?Ref=KN025

[Allan Senefelder]

Arms tended to be made up of three pieces, a seperate, rebrace, elbow cop and bracer or vambrace at the time this effigy was done. As for whether theres a shoulder cop of some sort there its not visible in the effigy pic so its tough to say.

[Sir Wolf]

true Allen. there are some at this time that do have spaulder caps so its up in the air I think or open to your interpretation.

as to free flowing, I think there is an internal piece of leather that may hold them all together but allows them to move around.  http://www.madmattsarmory.com/images/armor/FullWrapRearbrace_L.jpg Mad Matt's Armory has a picture that sorta shows what I mean.  If there was a spaulder cap with our without lames I would think it would attach the same way. but as stated thats my interpretation. you could leave them unattached and make them point together or to the mail.

[Allan Senefelder]

as to free flowing, I think there is an internal piece of leather that may hold them all together but allows them to move around.  http://www.madmattsarmory.com/images/armor/FullWrapRearbrace_L.jpg Mad Matt's Armory has a picture that sorta shows what I mean.

I have always wondered about this. I know that theres late 15th and 16th century arm harness that works that way, and the method is astoundingly simple that it seemed odd that it wasn't used as the first method of attaching the seperate plate components of arm harness together in the early 14th century prior to plate to plate ( shared rivet ) articulation but you never really hear anything about it that early.

[Sir Wolf]

you know the way the vambracer is sitting i almost wanna say that is free floating and the rest are attached together by an internal leather piece.  try holding your hands as shown in the picture. there isn't a way that the vambracers would let you do that if they were attached. they would be more towards the outside of the arm and not on top if they were.

[Sir Patrick]

I wondered about that, Sir Wolf, but was uncertain if what I was seeing in the effigy was true to life, or just artistic license.

[Sir Wolf]

heheh ya who knows. still cool looking either way

[Sir William]

I'll tell you one thing...it is WAY better to get the entire assembly made at once, rather than trying to piecemeal it like I did. 

[Sir Patrick]

I'll tell you one thing...it is WAY better to get the entire assembly made at once, rather than trying to piecemeal it like I did. 

Thanks for the tip!  This hobby can be frustrating enough as it is.

[Sir Edward]

The down-side of getting everything at once, of course, is the up-front cost. A lot of people have to do it one piece at a time in order to afford it. But of course, then you can run into issues of making everything match. Trade offs..

[Sir William]

Absolutely and that's all I meant; you can go about it either way, just in retrospect, it would've been better had I gotten it all done at once.  But as you say, there is the cost of it...I know for me it was much more affordable to do it the way I did, piecemeal.

With a suit of armor, it is much like a car- in that you want all of the bodypanels to fit flush, and that's a good deal harder to do when you're putting it together one panel at a time, each panel possibly coming from a different manufacturer...lol

I'm not complaining, mind you...it just means that for my next endeavour, I'll try my best to do it smarter you know?  Get the full leg instead of greaves, then 6 months later knees, then maybe 6 more months and cuisses, that sort of thing. 

I gotta tell you guys, as a hobby, I've seen worse...at least with us, you have tangible evidence that is always gonna turn heads!

[Sir Edward]

Oh yes, absolutely. The irony is that I started out getting harnesses all at once. My plate kit, for instance, all came from one source, all at once, originally. Since then, I've added pieces and swapped a few out, and now it's a bit of a frankenstein kit in that regard, but that's what it's taking to make it more comfortable and more complete. Getting it all at once does also carry the risk of having some parts not work out as well as others, and you end up switching them out anyway.

[Sir William]

Yes, well, there is that...like modding on cars, its fun!