Poleaxe Fight Accident

[Ian]

This was posted on facebook, but I know not everyone uses it, so I wanted to share here as well.  The following is a video clip of an accident that took place during a one-on-one combat.  The fighters are using steel poleaxes with ball tips on the top spikes. 

Video Clip

The injured gentlemen has been identified as Yuri Galilov by one of his instructors. He sustained an injury partially to the eye, tear duct and other structures around the nose, and had a successful operation to repair the damage. His eyesight was luckily unaffected. Apparently thrusts to the face were not permitted in this combat, but unfortunately mistakes happen.  Sometimes in the heat of things control takes a back seat to reflex and training.

I think the important lesson here is that even when the rules are designed to promote safety, human errors occur. The safety equipment is the last line of defense!  I think we can all see that using steel poleaxes with rigid steel spikes may not be the wisest choice when the ball tip is smaller than the oculars of your opponent's helmet.  Even then, a steel spike on the end of a haft with a ball tip to any part of the body not covered in plate could be devastating.

From a historical perspective, this should definitely give anyone a healthy respect for the poleaxe.

[Sir Edward]

The link didn't work for me. I'll have to look on FB and see if I can find it.

Yeah, in most of the HEMA circles, it's becoming pretty well accepted that the Poleaxe requires extra special care, since it's hard to make a "safe" version of it. If it looks like a poleaxe, it's a poleaxe. If the head is made of rubber, it only helps a little, and otherwise it still hits like a full blown poleaxe. The potential of going through the eye slots with a capped steel spike just makes it worse.

At WMAW a year and a half ago, Sean Hayes broke a finger doing poleaxe in the armored deed, with rubber-headed simulators. He took a blow to his hand, and despite his hourglass gauntlets, the impact still broke a finger even though it looked like there wasn't much energy involved at the time. That's relatively minor in comparison, but it illustrates just how dangerous it can be, even with rubber heads.

[Ian]

Try this:

https://www.facebook.com/augusto.boerbront/videos/10206060537974393/?pnref=story

[Ian]

Try this:

https://www.facebook.com/augusto.boerbront/videos/10206060537974393/?pnref=story

Unfortunately for the non-facebook users, I can't see to get the direct link to the mp4 working anymore.

[Ian]

Arne Koets sheds some more light and offers his perspective:

i was there, meters away... it was a flat strike.
he seems to have joilted with his haft due to the strike he was trying to parry.

the sand was extremely deep, so the footwork is extremely hard, hence the fight slows down, as you cannot cheat with your footwork in armour with pollaxes as we see in HEMA longsword tournaments all the time.

welding mesh into the helmet has been tried and just gets penetrated, fencing mask mesh does not stand up well to pollaxes.
grand bascinets designed for competative pollaxe combat in the period are effective but cost about 1500-5000€ each... on top of the rest of your armour.

thrusting at the weak points has been a common occurance in these kind of combats for decades, in fat some events onlyy count those strikes that hit the soft parts, unlike here in moscow where thrusts were allowed, jsut not to the face. (and groin)

but hooking, levering, wrestling, throwing, striking and thrusting were allowed and done.

the pollaxes here have rondels so shifting grip was pretty pointless.
they were war axes, which are heavier (originals range form 2500-3500 grams total)

[Sir James A]

Try this:

https://www.facebook.com/augusto.boerbront/videos/10206060537974393/?pnref=story

Unfortunately for the non-facebook users, I can't see to get the direct link to the mp4 working anymore.

Eh, who doesn't have a Book of Faces account?

Forgot to say, holy cow to the actual video too! I'm glad he was able to get the damage repaired. It's a miracle he didn't lose his eye, or vision.

(This is also why I was heavily in favor of wooden wasters vs steel, since the wasters were bigger than the oculars, and the steel isn't)

[Thorsteinn]

Anyone else reminded of this?

[Sir Wolf]

did my post not show up last night?

[Sir Edward]

did my post not show up last night?

I noticed it this morning. Thanks

[Sir Edward]

Anyone else reminded of this?

Yeah, definitely a cringe-worthy photo.

[Ian]

More clarification from Arne:

it wasn't a thrust, it was a horizontal strike, it was the blade of the axe comeing into the vision slit and hitting the eyelid (piercing it, i believe) popping the eye from its' socket. the thrust spikes had a massive steel ball welded on it, but the axe blades were fairly pointy.

apparently the guy was operated on that night, the eye is back in the socket and he can see (something) with it. he is still in hospital and will be getting specialist attention.

you can't really hear his vocalisation as it was quite unnerving.
i hope he makes a good recovery.

the rest of the foot tourney was actually really nice, all participants fought hard, but with much more technique than the russians are often credited for. The struck hard, wrestld hard, but not unduely.

I felt safe and had fun in my fights. This one guy i was wondering about those horizontalish strikes and the recipients large eye slit.

the rest of the guys were a little larger in their strikes than we do in holland, and the axes were a bit heavier, but i was not hit any harder than i am used to in austrlia, holland or america.

this is about weapon placement, that is where safety lies.

and thrusts to the face were specifically forbidden, a fact that the marshal made sure to re-iterate in two languages before EVERY fight.

I think he made the horizontal strike and might have jerked a bit to parry with the shaft, or even felt the tip get caught on the vision slit and tried to wiggle it free, thereby actually stabbing him.

I was 7 meters away when it happened.

Kolomenskoye park, moscow.

I do hope it is going to end as well as it sounded in the evening, it is such a nice chap... he does deserve to be lucky on this one. let's hope he is."

[Thorsteinn]

So this accident could have happened from a legal strike then? I know it happened from an illegal one but a legal one could also do this yes?

[Ian]

So this accident could have happened from a legal strike then? I know it happened from an illegal one but a legal one could also do this yes?

If what Arne says is accurate, this may have been a legal strike gone awry.  He's saying it wasn't a thrust to the face, that it was actually the axe blade, on a horizontal cut that managed to get inside the eye-slit.  It was the corner of the blade, not the top spike that did the damage.  It's unclear if only 'thrusts to the face' were illegal, or any shot to the face.

[Ian]

I would think that the sallet itself is a contributing factor in that it was one huge eye-slit instead of two smaller eye-slits like a bascinet.

[Sir James A]

In just the first minute of the video, they make multiple strikes towards the helmet and/or face. I think it was just thrusts that were not allowed, but an instinctive twitch at the end of a strike doesn't take much to become a gentle thrust... and a gentle thrust from the edge of an axe blade gets ugly quickly.

Edit: And agreed, the sallet is a horrible helmet for something like that. This is one time I'd want a bar grill, or a historical barred-eye-slot klappvisor, or a grand bascinet.