The Myth of European Reenactment Perfection

[Ian]

There's a myth among the reenactment community in the United States that the European reenactment scene is just so much better and full of wonderfully accurate impressions.  I used to think this to some extent myself.   I think it's a 'grass is always greener' kind of thing.  Turns out, they're just like us.  They have some events that are truly a site to behold and short of a time machine are the closest you'll get the Middle Ages.  They also have some events that are glorified LARPs (lightning bolt style without the magic) that are being passed off as history.  I will present examples of both.

This is one of the most frustrating things about being part of the Living History community that cares.  The public, largely uneducated on the details or facts of the medieval era goes to a reenactment, and for all intents and purposes goes home thinking that what they just saw was presented fact.  A poor event has a detrimental effect on the public and reinforces all the worst myths and misconceptions of the middle ages.  One bad event can erase all the hard work and research that went in to countless good ones.  This is why the people who do care try so hard to get it right.  We're fighting an uphill battle. 

The bad example:

I present this video not to be made fun of, but as a showing of evidence of the contrasting levels of accuracy in events in Europe.  This was an event held last year to commemorate the 600th anniversary of a battle in the city of Korbach, 1413.  The armor is from every period of the middle ages, and poorly done at that.  The clothing is mostly pure fantasy.  The weapons and other equipment follow suit...

But remember, at the end of the day, every patron at that event who isn't a student of the middle ages just went home with that solidified in their minds that what they saw there is how it was.  If you care about our history, strive to be part of the solution, not part of the problem.  This is where the slippery slope of being too lax about things leads.





The good example:

Now as a contrasting example, this is how to do it right. here is the 650th anniversary commemoration of the Battle of Wisby, 1361.  I'm sure if you look really hard you'll find some things that may not be spot on, but overall this is an EXCELLENT event and what reenactments should strive for! 

The patrons at this event were given an outstanding presentation of the history of Wisby. Again, at the end of the day, the people who didn't know about the details before went home with this presentation in their minds as the facts.  The difference is these actually were done well.  So just like here in the US, Europe is fraught with the good and the bad when it comes to historical accuracy.

[Sir Patrick]

We that Battle of Wisby clip from "The Re-Enactors"?  That's a great video showing all the hard work that goes into a good event.

[Ian]

We that Battle of Wisby clip from "The Re-Enactors"?  That's a great video showing all the hard work that goes into a good event.

Yep, same event.  They did a great job with it.

[Sir James A]

My biggest jealousy of the European events is in the setting; they have the actual period castles and cities at which to hold events, which is something we will never have here in the states.

Excellent thread and great comments, Sir Ian.

[Mike W.]

Who cares about the mismatching armor. As long as everyone is having fun, nobody loses. 

[Ian]

Who cares about the mismatching armor. As long as everyone is having fun, nobody loses. 

A living history event's primary purpose is education.  As I mentioned several times in the initial post, the patrons go home with that ingrained in their heads as historical fact.  So an event that perpetuates one of the greatest misconceptions of the Middle Ages in the name of specifically recreating an event in the year 1413 fails in its primary function.  The misconception I'm referring to is that non-students of the Middle Ages consider them to be a small lumped together string of time where Norman Knights coexisted with Maximilian Armor-clad knights and everything in between.  When you intentionally misrepresent the facts, you're part of the problem.  Living Historians exist because of the passion they have for depicting things as well as they can, not to intentionally make stuff up.  There are plenty of other venues to get your 'medieval on' where you're not trying to be educational first and foremost, but a Living History event is not one of them.  We crazy folk also derive a lot of the fun and satisfaction from the research and coming together of a historically sound impression, and then being able to share that knowledge with the public!

My biggest jealousy of the European events is in the setting; they have the actual period castles and cities at which to hold events, which is something we will never have here in the states.

Excellent thread and great comments, Sir Ian.

Totally jealous of their settings!  That's why it makes me even more sad when they throw everything else to the wind.  It's almost disrespectful to the site they're on

[Sir Martyn]

Who cares about the mismatching armor. As long as everyone is having fun, nobody loses. 

A living history event's primary purpose is education.  As I mentioned several times in the initial post, the patrons go home with that ingrained in their heads as historical fact.  So an event that perpetuates one of the greatest misconceptions of the Middle Ages in the name of specifically recreating an event in the year 1413 fails in its primary function.  The misconception I'm referring to is that non-students of the Middle Ages consider them to be a small lumped together string of time where Norman Knights coexisted with Maximilian Armor-clad knights and everything in between.  When you intentionally misrepresent the facts, you're part of the problem.  Living Historians exist because of the passion they have for depicting things as well as they can, not to intentionally make stuff up.  There are plenty of other venues to get your 'medieval on' where you're not trying to be educational first and foremost, but a Living History event is not one of them.  We crazy folk also derive a lot of the fun and satisfaction from the research and coming together of a historically sound impression, and then being able to share that knowledge with the public!

My biggest jealousy of the European events is in the setting; they have the actual period castles and cities at which to hold events, which is something we will never have here in the states.

Excellent thread and great comments, Sir Ian.

Totally jealous of their settings!  That's why it makes me even more sad when they throw everything else to the wind.  It's almost disrespectful to the site they're on

Thanks for starting this good discussion. 

I don't know that Europeans going to a "sloppy" LH event are going to leave with concrete impressions that's how it was back then - depends on a lot of factors, right?  What they knew coming into it, where they're coming from, what the expectations are, etc.  As James said, one of the biggest things Europeans have going for them is that they grow up surrounded by this history - that's not to say that everyone has an equal level of appreciation/understanding for it, of course - but for all of them it's an inescapable part of their culture they are surrounded by and inundated with from birth.

I have total respect for folks on both sides of the ocean who are working for historical accuracy in all aspects and to the maximum extent possible.  Invaluable research and lessons are being done & passed on.  But, I also think that people who are doing things in a different, perhaps (in the eyes of some) "less accurate" way - but with spirit, enthusiasm and emphasis on values (i.e., rediscovering handicrafts, appreciating the work of your own hands, teamwork, etc - to say nothing of chivalry) also bring something of importance to the table.

Case in point, one 14th cent. LH group I recently discovered, Doba Karlova (http://dobakarlova.cz/en/).  Clearly, they are going to pains in their presentation to educate people about the period, how they lived, what they did, why things happened the way they did, etc.  But it also seems that some flexibility in their execution is also OK - i.e., some wear machine-sown garments. 

These people  obviously also care about the accuracy of their portrayal/re-enactment, but not to the point that they are excluding others who are not as accurate.  Separately, as a teacher in my experience education, to be effective, should also take inspiration into account. 

We may have different views on how to motivate others and the most effective means to communicate what we hope to share with them.  If some Europeans seem more focused on the fighting (or roleplaying, or whatever), it's also because I think many of these groups (yes, LARPers included) care mostly about the energy and enthusiasm one discovers when disconnected -- if only for a little while, from our modern, 24/7 world -- and finds something of the spirit of the past and their predecesors "internally" through sharing these experiences. 

When they want museum-quality accuracy and detail, I think many Europeans just visit the museum/local castle.  But when they attend LH events open to the public, right or wrong, they are expecting a show, and the groups there are looking for ways to draw these people into their world and engage new generations in an approachable way.  I'm not trying to say European LH should be or is "dumbed down," but just that many of them also seem to see the goal and the best means of achieving it through a different lens.

BTW & OT, Maruska asked me to thank the Order again for the recent demo here for our neighborhood when she saw a young boy with his father at our playground this past wknd sporting a new cloak, shield and helmet - seems like we have a new "knight" in the making:)

[Ian]

As James said, one of the biggest things Europeans have going for them is that they grow up surrounded by this history - that's not to say that everyone has an equal level of appreciation/understanding for it, of course - but for all of them it's an inescapable part of their culture they are surrounded by and inundated with from birth.

That's like assuming people in the US have an understanding of American History... or even their own local history.  I would venture to say that a lot of people don't really have that understanding, and many don't really care.  Being in the right setting doesn't mean the people in it know anything about it.

I don't know of any strict LH groups here in the US that require all hand-sewn garments for medieval impressions either.  I'm sure there may be some out there, and that would be a bit extreme.  But then again, if you don't want to play by those rules, don't try to join that specific game.  That's what I take umbrage with.  It's the people who see a group that has a certain set of rules, then they get all upset when they won't relax their rules for them.  If you want to play a more relaxed game, join or form a more relaxed group, but leave the people who enjoy the strict presentation alone and let them do their thing.

I agree that it takes all levels of accuracy to bring a good presentation to the table because you don't want to exclude people's knowledge when they may have some garments that are not correct.  But you have to draw the line somewhere.  That's what always gets people's panties in to a bunch.   There comes a point where the inaccuracies are detracting from the presentation.  That is a fine line to walk.  The first video I posted is well beyond that line.  It shows virtually nothing correct about the material culture of the chosen time period.  That's why I used it as the example.

I think a lot of people are falsely making the assumption that I think everyone should be super accurate all the time.  That's false.  Look at DoK, there are hugely varying levels of accuracy at that event.  But that's why we're able to have such a large and successful event with such a wide variety of knowledge.  Now when it comes to my own personal standards for myself, I prefer to do things as accurate as my knowledge and skill allows.  That's how I, and my group operate, but we only hold ourselves to those standards.

**also, don't forget the point of this discussion was to bust the myth that European living history is all of that stitch-counting museum-level quality, it's not**

[Ian]

  But, I also think that people who are doing things in a different, perhaps (in the eyes of some) "less accurate" way - but with spirit, enthusiasm and emphasis on values (i.e., rediscovering handicrafts, appreciating the work of your own hands, teamwork, etc - to say nothing of chivalry) also bring something of importance to the table.

Case in point, one 14th cent. LH group I recently discovered, Doba Karlova (http://dobakarlova.cz/en/).  Clearly, they are going to pains in their presentation to educate people about the period, how they lived, what they did, why things happened the way they did, etc.  But it also seems that some flexibility in their execution is also OK - i.e., some wear machine-sown garments. 

These people  obviously also care about the accuracy of their portrayal/re-enactment, but not to the point that they are excluding others who are not as accurate.  Separately, as a teacher in my experience education, to be effective, should also take inspiration into account. 

Totally on  board with this too. I don't think anyone's disagreeing with that.

[Sir Douglas]

As James said, one of the biggest things Europeans have going for them is that they grow up surrounded by this history - that's not to say that everyone has an equal level of appreciation/understanding for it, of course - but for all of them it's an inescapable part of their culture they are surrounded by and inundated with from birth.

That's like assuming people in the US have an understanding of American History... or even their own local history.  I would venture to say that a lot of people don't really have that understanding, and many don't really care.  Being in the right setting doesn't mean the people in it know anything about it.

I totally agree on this point. How many average people know anything about the Civil War besides it was North/Blue v. South/Grey? For that matter, how many average people know anything about the history of the Ancient Pueblos (who were contemporaneous to medieval Europeans)? I certainly don't. I know they lived in cliffs and I've been to Mesa Verde a few times, but I couldn't tell you how they made their clothing, or the structure of their social hierarchy. There are people who do, but I'm not one of them. There has to first be an interest in the history around you, then a desire or yearning to discover more about it. I could easily go to a bad Civil War reenactment and be none the wiser, but there's probably a Civil War reenactment forum out there somewhere that's having this same discussion.

I do, however, think that the aspects of medieval European history is by and large more accessible to the average European. Doesn't automatically mean they use them, but they're there.

EDIT: Perhaps I should say that a higher quality information is more accessible to them. We can find information on just about anything via the Internet, but nothing beats seeing a piece of armor or clothing or a castle right there in person.

[Sir Rodney]

This is a great discussion with Ian acting as the “myth buster”.  The Europeans are involved in living history level reenactments as well as the SCA and LARPs.  While no one is perfect, I’ve always been impressed with their level of historical detail overall.

The argument regarding historical accuracy is a hot topic in the SCA currently.  At a recent event, I fought a range individuals from those who had period correct kits down to their hand sewn braies, to individuals in exposed plastic armour with undisguised tennis shoes.  The range of representations stretched from 11th century Mongols to 15th century Italians, and everyone in between.  Motivation, context and budget all play their parts.

Generally speaking, many individuals start in an SCA-like group and migrate to like-minded groups as their knowledge and desires mature.  Some straddle the divide and continue to participate in multiple groups.

Personally, I desire a more accurate representation of near-living history quality and continue my slow migration to that goal.  This desire is balanced with the fact that I really enjoy hitting people with rattan, a lot!

I don’t believe it’s too farfetched to think the same factors influence our European counterparts.  To each their own.

However, I do believe that an event being publicized as “living history” or an actual reenactment of a specific battle requires a higher level of research and representation to leave a proper picture in the mind of the general public.  Anything less is a disservice.

[Sir James A]

I didn't watch the full 15 minute video, but, question on the two, that I think is relevant to the topic at hand. Is the first video commemorating the anniversary of the battle meant to actually re-enact the battle, or was it a bunch of people with medieval-ish gear getting together to celebrate something medieval without any particular representation of historical accuracy?

And a bit more abstract, is the question of do they assume an event at a medieval location with medieval theme is automatically living history? How do they differentiate that gray area between living history and renn fest, when they are just having a medieval themed event, without dragons / pirates / fairies? Would the public walk away from that kind of thing, with the impression they learned something historical?

Days of Knights is marketed as a historically accurate re-creation. I wonder how they "market" some of their events over there. Certainly things like the Laurin tournament bring immense levels of accuracy, but how about the others? Is "open house at Caernaphon castle" with staged combat meant to be an accurate event, or a chance for the public to see the castle and some sword fighting.

Sir Gerard's experiences with this would be fantastic, as it's his domain.

[Ian]

I didn't watch the full 15 minute video, but, question on the two, that I think is relevant to the topic at hand. Is the first video commemorating the anniversary of the battle meant to actually re-enact the battle, or was it a bunch of people with medieval-ish gear getting together to celebrate something medieval without any particular representation of historical accuracy?

And a bit more abstract, is the question of do they assume an event at a medieval location with medieval theme is automatically living history? How do they differentiate that gray area between living history and renn fest, when they are just having a medieval themed event, without dragons / pirates / fairies? Would the public walk away from that kind of thing, with the impression they learned something historical?

The first video is commemorating the actual battle and was put on by a historical group called Sankt Regina.  I became aware of the video as it was shared in a reenactment group.  Their website is in German, but the translation does bill them as a historical group.

As for the distinction between ren faire and LH, I imagine it wouldn't be very different than how we do it in the US.  We call something a Ren Faire, or an LH event... but that is just speculation on how it's handled in Europe.  I can't imagine it's drastically different though.

However, I do believe that an event being publicized as “living history” or an actual reenactment of a specific battle requires a higher level of research and representation to leave a proper picture in the mind of the general public.  Anything less is a disservice.

That's the important distinction in my mind as well. 

For people who don't enjoy that level of accuracy and detail, there are tons of more inclusive groups out there that allow a wider range of accuracy.  The SCA is probably the best example.  The SCA is about as inclusive as you can get.  Some people have museum-quality LH kits as SCAdians, and others wear plastic pickle barrels and tennis shoes as medieval armor.  But that's just part of the SCA.  By its very nature it's supposed to be inclusive of all that.  And that's great!

LH on the other hand is not designed to be all inclusive and is certainly not for everyone.  That's why I don't understand people who rag on the exclusivity of LH.  That's the game they've chosen, much like the inclusive game of the SCA.

LH is also not nearly as 'exclusive' as people make it out to be.  I went to the first DoK with little to no experience, armed only with knowledge and a terrible soft kit.  DoK is a very inclusive LH event.  That being said, DoK has a set of standards, and if a person is unwilling to comply with those standards or thinks they're too strict, then LH may not be your game.  And that's fine!  Don't water down someone else's game because you want to play by a different set of rules.  Find the game that best works for you!

[Sir Matthew]

I have found a direct correlation between safety standards and authenticity, and these two videos reinforce that. The first video shows a number of things I consider unsafe, especially with the black powder. One glaring thing is the artillery piece is way too close to the crowd. I would never serve on a crew operating a piece that close and at that angle to a crowd. The second video shows a number of "behind the scenes" safety proceedures in place. The most obvious is clearing the field of the wounded after the initial skirmish, since there is cavalry involved, no one takes a hit and dies in the area the horses will run through, rather several people fain injuries and comrades come out to help them back to their lines (the safe area). Admitedly I only watched half of each video as my computer was being uncooperative, but this mirrors first accounts of events from other reenactors and what I have observed or experienced in person.

[Sir Rodney]

Interesting, I have no real experience with cannon or black powder and thus hadn’t considered it!

Off topic cannon story:

Recently, I was giving a local SCA guy a hard time for missing a spring fighting event last year.  His response was “Well, if you could either run around in armour being hit with rattan all day; or spend the day firing cannons at Fort Snelling to qualify for a cannon crew, what would you have done?”

Fire cannons of course!