Gambisons/gambeson on the out side

[Sir Vander Linde]

I haven't been on here in a while but I have a question. While going through some itialian art I came across several examples of plate armored knights wearing a gambison on the out side as well as under the plate. Just curious to know what you all make of this, I plan on doing this with my kit, though usually I educate people when at events on parts of my kit I would have no clue what the purpose of it on the out side would be.

[Aiden of Oreland]

I think I know what your talking about. 14th century? I think it was just a jupon that had padding added to it for more style or to better protect the breast plate.

[Ian]

The tail end of the 14th century, continuing in to the early years of the 15th century is littered with manuscript illuminations and effigies of quilted  jupons worn outside of the armor.  Some examples:





The surviving jupon of Charles VI may have been intended for wear over armor:



And the jupon of the Edward of Woodstock (Black Prince):

[Sir Brian]

I suspect though that some of those pictured may possibly be depictions of corrazina armor which would fall within the same general period.

[Sir Vander Linde]

Hmm I was referring more to what Farinata degli Uberti, is often duplicated wearing. Which having now seen what you all have posted seems like a plausible evolution. He is often depicted  in one that more resembles a tabard, like the one  Sir Ian posted of the Black Prince's one, though the most often one is just plain red.

[Thorsteinn]

Sir Daniel de Blaire wears an Angel Wing Jupon. Seems to like it well enough.

[Ian]

Hmm I was referring more to what Farinata degli Uberti, is often duplicated wearing. Which having now seen what you all have posted seems like a plausible evolution. He is often depicted  in one that more resembles a tabard, like the one  Sir Ian posted of the Black Prince's one, though the most often one is just plain red.

Those images of Farinata are also showing him in armor that's several hundred years past his own lifetime.  Regardless it's hard to tell if those images are depicting a thick quilted jupon like the turn of the 15th century stuff, or if it's just a pleated over-gown.  There's a painting of someone in armor with what basically looks like a dress on over it, and I can't find it right now...  I want to say it's blackened armor, 16th century, and the over-gown is brownish in color.  I really wish I could find it.

Either way, it's certainly appropriate to wear a quilted outer-garment over armor at the turn of the 15th.  Later on I can't speak to.  If you're interested in the Farinata garment, then I suspect you're interested in much later examples.

Corrazinas are usually depicted with visible rivets, and corrazinas are not quilted (the textile outer covering is stretched smooth over the surface of the plates and riveted in place), nor do they ever have sleeves.  These are a different animal.

[Sir Vander Linde]

sir Thorsteinn, that is very interesting jupon, reminds me of the ones in the Gladiatorie fetchbook. I always assumed the wings would get in the way though...

Sir Ian, I think I know which depiction you are referring to actually. Most of my kit is 15th century Italian gothic, which is why I was interested in the one depicted on Farinata degli Uberti, I figured knowing the artist was most likely working from a written description that when they illustrated it they used what was familiar to them. in older depictions or art it is just a red robe. as for the Corrazinas I like those very much, but I would prefer the quilted look.

[Lord Dane]

Corrazinas were more common in northern Italian provinces/city-states, Spain, and parts of southern France in 14th century along border regions. Did not seem a widespread fashion outside that sphere of influence but was popular with those with a fancy for Milanese armor. 

[Sir James A]

Hmm I was referring more to what Farinata degli Uberti, is often duplicated wearing. Which having now seen what you all have posted seems like a plausible evolution. He is often depicted  in one that more resembles a tabard, like the one  Sir Ian posted of the Black Prince's one, though the most often one is just plain red.

Those images of Farinata are also showing him in armor that's several hundred years past his own lifetime.  Regardless it's hard to tell if those images are depicting a thick quilted jupon like the turn of the 15th century stuff, or if it's just a pleated over-gown.  There's a painting of someone in armor with what basically looks like a dress on over it, and I can't find it right now...  I want to say it's blackened armor, 16th century, and the over-gown is brownish in color.  I really wish I could find it.

Either way, it's certainly appropriate to wear a quilted outer-garment over armor at the turn of the 15th.  Later on I can't speak to.  If you're interested in the Farinata garment, then I suspect you're interested in much later examples.

Corrazinas are usually depicted with visible rivets, and corrazinas are not quilted (the textile outer covering is stretched smooth over the surface of the plates and riveted in place), nor do they ever have sleeves.  These are a different animal.

I believe this is correct, I don't recall ever seeing one with sleeves. I have seen sleeves on brigandines, such as this:

https://warosu.org/data/tg/img/0211/41/1350347083912.jpg

Plates are different of course, and rivet pattern, but both are fabric covered and if the rivets aren't drawn they might be hard to distinguish.