New to this World...

[Don Jorge]

Hello everyone, my name is Jorge Manuel Acosta (added some of ya'll on fb already!) and I am 28 years old. I went to college at Florida International University and got a double major in History and Asian Studies with a minor in Religious Studies. I came to North Carolina to get my Masters in Divinity in Christian Apologetics back in 2011. I just got married a month ago and am as happy as a clam.

As a history major and self-proclaimed nerd with an extraordinary imagination, I have always found dressing up and renaissance fairs to be great fun! About a year ago I plunged into LARP and started playing with a soft kit a wizard/priest archetype. I am about start a new LARP with some friends here in NC and decided to play a knight. In the research of armor and kits to create my character concept I found this forum. The concept of Modern Chivalry and Knighthood intrigues me. As a christian I feel that I aspire to be and work on a better me. Always being considerate to others and their needs.

Now a few questions. I have a friend who can get me a 50% discount off anything on larping.org and I was looking at these sets as starters for my LARP character. I understand it isn't SCA or even historically accurate but hey for a full set at under $350 that isn't bad. I have seen helmets that cost more alone! Now I will submit to the wisdom on the forums here and spend my money on things I like but also are recommended by those that know a LOT more about weapons and armor. So here are my scenarios/questions:

1. Buy cheap 18 gauge armor from LARPing.org
2. Buy SCA approved Battle Ready armor from wherever you guys suggest (maybe talk to my SCA Marshall first) little by little developing my kit slowly but surely full of items I want and but might be expensive.
3. Mix and match and get some cheaper armor for items that don't need to be heavy duty. Like get 18 gauge from Larping.org for greaves or bracers.

The obvious answer is #2. But before you tell me that take a few things into consideration and let me know what you think. Right now my priority is LARP. I have good friends there and am plugged into a LARP community. I am just figuring out what else to add to my hobbies (to the dismay of my wife I am sure!). I am only just finding out about SCA and Living History and re-enactments and Armored Combat Leagues and HEMA!

I have made contact and plan to attend my local HEMA group (www.triangleswordguild.com) and am looking to buy a Feder ASAP. Already got some Lacrosse gloves and need to buy my Helmet ASAP. I have heard about SCA and am intrigued with the idea as it seems like something my wife can actually get into! She is wary of LARPing and doesn't like make believe but loves dressing up and going to Ren Faires. SCA might be a good alternative for her to partake in my geekiness. What is Living History even about? What options are out there? If I buy legit armor and swords I want to be able to USE them and fight and use all the HEMA training I am going to be picking up. Suggestions on different things to do would be appreciated!

Order of things I want to spend money on:
1. HEMA Helmet
2. Gambeson for HEMA and under my armor!
3. Armor of a Knight (era and persona is flexible...I am an anglophile but also learning german longsword and from portugese/spanish decent myself so those could be interesting)...to be used immediately for LARP...so either cheap 18 gauge full set or some essentials of good stuff to make me LOOK like a knight and then eventually build the kit...
4. Feder (thinking about rengenyei or ensifer or pavel moc)
5. Actual Sword for either SCA/Living History/ACL or whatever it is I decide to do besides LARP.

Wow this post is turning out to be a lot longer than I imagined. But hey now you guys know me and my goals a little better and maybe I can start making some headway and understanding what I need to be doing and in what order to start my career as a Knight

Thanks,
Jorge

[Sir William]

Welcome to Modern Chivalry, Jorge - take a look around, stay awhile...you'll find we're a great bunch of guys with similar, if not the same, interests- and always happy to help.

An aside on LARP armor...the link you provided has a lot of the stuff that I've seen popping up starting a year or two ago; it isn't cheap and it isn't going to stand up to snuff if you ever plan on taking it into the combat arena.  While it was fun to upgrade and switch out this piece or that piece in my quest to become more historically plausible, I sort of wish I had someone like me, or the fine gents of this forum, to steer me away from the constant dross that's all over the place and point me in the right direction.

If you are interested in acquiring armor, do it right the first time and buy armor that's going to be protective and look good, rather than pretty bits that'll get bashed to pieces in your first foray.  Even if you never go beyond LARPing, you'll at least have the best suit of armor out there (unless someone's done the same as you and went for real armor rather than decorative) and who knows, in your quest for knighthood, it is not unheard of for raw recruits to take a liking to the more martial side of knighthood (fencing, jousting, feasting, dancing, etc etc) on top of assembling a period-specific harness or kit.  There are many on here who are much more versed in this sort of thing than I- I'm just giving the broad brush stroke, there's a lot to consider with regard to being a knight that would take up a lot more room than I feel like doing at this moment in this post.

One thing I didn't learn til later- the garments you were under your armor are just as important as the armor itself; it can either make it a pleasant, rewarding and gratifying experience, or it can be ghastly, uncomfortable and in some case, downright painful.  Whichever route you choose, my only hope is that you enjoy it.

[Sir Patrick]

Hail and welcome!

[Sir Edward]

Welcome!

Sir William has the right of it. The under garments matter A LOT when it comes to armor. However, what you wear under the armor may depend a lot on the kind of armor you want to go with.

There are some downsides to getting inexpensive 18ga armor, though it has the advantage of being very light. One of course is that you can't fight in it for SCA or HEMA. Another is that it's probably "one size fits most" or only will come in a few sizes. Plus there's a good chance that it's not going to be designed well in certain areas, whether that translates into how it fits, how it moves, or both. And nothing sucks more than wearing improperly fitted or shaped armor.

On the plus side, however, is that thin gauge metal is easy to bend and cut, so if something isn't right, you may be able to adjust things, or trim down a sharp corner.

But having said all of that, you're going to be investing money right from the start, so I would still recommend getting something that favors function over being cheap. Most of us end up with a box full of "junk armor" that never worked right, and we've replaced it twice over. For instance, I have a set of legs and gaunts I never use, but they were standard, cheap SCA gear.

The requirements will of course be very different for different groups. For LARP you only need to worry about appearance and comfort, but SCA has all sorts of requirements for safety, and for HEMA it's all about comfort and mobility, and how much protection your group (or yourself) demands.  Living history is a whole different game.

For living history, they want everything to be as accurate as humanly possible. That means having the correct belt buckles, shoes, hinges and clasps, the right shaping and look to the armor pieces, not mixing components that were decades apart historically, and so on. This is a very high standard of authenticity, so most people don't start here. Accurately made armor can get very expensive, depending on the type (for instance, 15th century fluted Gothic plate is horrifically expensive if done correctly).

So I doubt you'll find a "works for everything" solution, at least not right away, unless you're willing to shell out the big bucks for high Gothic armor.

[Sir Douglas]

Welcome to the forum, and congrats on your recent marriage!

I'm going to go the lazy route and pretty much say, "Ditto" to what Sirs William and Edward said.

But I'll add on a bit to that. Probably the best thing to do is decide what you main goal is going to be. For instance, if you're just LARPing now but plan on getting into SCA combat, it would be a lot less expensive to spend a little more on good SCA-grade armor now than to buy a set of LARP gear now and have to re-buy everything later on for SCA (plus, with some decent gear to start out with, you'll probably be one of the flyest LARPer around ). When it comes to this hobby, a lot of times "cheaper" can end up being more expensive in the long run.

Also, if you're going for a more historical kit, it would be best to pick a general time frame. Pick a century and try to stay within that century as much as possible. It will help you figure out what kind of arming garments would work best and be the most comfortable. A 13th century aketon doesn't work very will with 15th century full-plate. As was previously stated, under garments are very important. Then, once you get the basics, you can refine it further by "early", "mid", or "late" century, or even get as specific as a particular decade. It all depends how much you want to get into it.

But that's just one way to go about it. You'll find that everyone does things a little bit differently, so spend some time researching before jumping right into it and find out what works best for you. And, don't be afraid to ask questions here if you're unsure about something. This is a pretty easy-going forum with some really smart guys. We'll help you out wherever we can.

[Sir James A]

I sent a PM a day or two ago regarding the armor. Let me know if you didn't get it.

If you are already engrossed into the LARP community... I'm going to suggest something that, to be perfectly honest, I love suggesting. Multiple kits!

Get your LARP armor, have fun with that, and when it's mostly complete (a kit is rarely ever *complete*), then, start expanding into a new one for SCA. You can get into some of the cheaper SCA armor, and still look pretty decent on the field, for around $1,000 or so (helmet to heels). LARP armor, I have no idea, though. One thing to remember is SCA armor can be used for LARPing; LARP armor can't, 99% of the time, be used for SCA.

[Don Jorge]

My problem with SCA armor is finding it and being secure that it will pass Marshall's inspection. Do you guys know where I can get a nice decent SCA set? Also are there any resources to see different kits by century...like a chart or table so I can see which look I want to start working towards?

Thanks a lot for the warm welcome and advice!

[Don Jorge]

I sent a PM a day or two ago regarding the armor. Let me know if you didn't get it.

If you are already engrossed into the LARP community... I'm going to suggest something that, to be perfectly honest, I love suggesting. Multiple kits!

Get your LARP armor, have fun with that, and when it's mostly complete (a kit is rarely ever *complete*), then, start expanding into a new one for SCA. You can get into some of the cheaper SCA armor, and still look pretty decent on the field, for around $1,000 or so (helmet to heels). LARP armor, I have no idea, though. One thing to remember is SCA armor can be used for LARPing; LARP armor can't, 99% of the time, be used for SCA.

Yes I read your PM, thanks for the input! At this point I have not bought anything except my HEMA Lacross gloves

And it seems I cannot buy my Gambeson until I pick out:
a) Time Period for my Kit
b) How historically accurate I want to be (arming points etc)

So...like I said...are there any resources showing side by side armor from different centuries in different countries? I am pretty sure my Kit should be English, German, Portuguese or Spanish....I also think I prefer Plate over Chain...James what armor type is it that you sport in your avatar? That looks a lot like my taste...I am sure it is expensive

[Sir William]

I'll let Sir James regale you with the tale on how he got all of that harness together; now, once you've picked out what period you want to shoot for and how historically accurate you want to get, we can then suggest some armorers you might want to get acquainted with.

[Sir Douglas]

So...like I said...are there any resources showing side by side armor from different centuries in different countries?

Well, there's this: http://www.thortrains.com/uniforms/fullarmor1.jpg It's pretty basic, but it might give you some ideas as to what time-frame you want to shoot for. You sound like you're a Late Middle Ages fellow. That's when you started seeing plate gain favor over maille. I mentioned in another thread that I'm a big fan of this book when it comes to armor. The chapters are broken down by century, and there are a lot of really nice photos of period armor and illustrations. Might be worth checking out.

[Sir Gerard de Rodes]

Welcome Belemrys, and good speed to you.
G.

[Don Jorge]

So...like I said...are there any resources showing side by side armor from different centuries in different countries?

Well, there's this: http://www.thortrains.com/uniforms/fullarmor1.jpg It's pretty basic, but it might give you some ideas as to what time-frame you want to shoot for. You sound like you're a Late Middle Ages fellow. That's when you started seeing plate gain favor over maille. I mentioned in another thread that I'm a big fan of this book when it comes to armor. The chapters are broken down by century, and there are a lot of really nice photos of period armor and illustrations. Might be worth checking out.

Awesome! Exactly the type of resources I am looking for...I will check and see if I can find that book in my local library (doubt it).

Thanks,
Jorge

[Sir James A]

Yep, as was said, arming garments are critical to having armor - particularly plate - not be a horrendous experience. And the time period you're shooting for, whether it's "around 1410-1420" or "about 1450 give or take 25 years" is an important first step before picking out what you want.

I'll let Sir James regale you with the tale on how he got all of that harness together; now, once you've picked out what period you want to shoot for and how historically accurate you want to get, we can then suggest some armorers you might want to get acquainted with.

Ha! Well, the helmet (not pictured) is an MRL armet for now. The mail standard/collar, I made. The cuirass, arms, gauntlets, and upper legs are by Allan of Mercenary's Tailor - no longer in business, but he sells pieces here and there - and if you're lucky enough to get some, it's some of the best functional armor you can get for the price. The greaves are from the Ukraine, by HammerBreaker. The sabatons are by Mad Matt up in Canada (Mad Matt's armory). The mail is by IceFalcon and I had to expand the fauld (still working on voiders, so, not pictured). The shoes are Viking Leather 14th century w/ties, the pants are GDFB 15th century wool pants, Revival Clothing linen shirt, with a Revival Clothing arming coat. No gambeson or padding. Sword belt is by Inner Bailey Leatherworks, sword is an Albion Mercenary. I think that covers it, aside from that I wear modern boxers and socks under it all.

It's not based on a specific harness, and is English/Italian in style. It is a "composite" of around 1525, meaning made up of different parts of armor from similar styles and decades, but not based on a harness that was specifically produced as a single armor.

It's extremely rare for an armorer to work in the huge span of all medieval armor, so if you have any specific time frame, I'd be happy to point you towards armorers who make what you'd be looking for.

[Don Jorge]

From what I have been looking at I am torn between 1515 Maximilian type armor (he is my favorite Hapsberg Monarch)...or something like Sir Brian has as far as transitional armor...I think that might be cheaper than the Maximilian type armor...

http://www.illusionarmoring.com/16thsuit.html

Looks like it would be about 1500 plus shipping plus strapping and a random 350 dollar charge?

[Sir James A]

Illusion is known for long wait times. And then being late too. If you have around 18 months or so to wait, it might be worth a try. They're quoting a year for orders, I recall seeing orders that were a year past the original delivery date and still unfinished (though a few years back).

Maximillian armor is heavily fluted. Open up a home equity line of credit or something. Roughly $15,000 for a cheap one out of mild steel. If you want heat treated steel, I'd say you're talking $20,000+ range. It's one of the styles I'd love to have, few people make, and I'll never have unless I hit the lotto or end up having kids who hit the lotto...

Transitional armor is MUCH more reasonable in price. It is also easier to get it fitting properly, whereas plate has very little forgiveness in fitment. I've spent many hours getting mine tweaked to a decent fitment. As far as transitional, I have a GDFB bascinet, coat of plates (aluminum), and (in stainless) steel spaulders, steel knee and elbow cops, splint arms and splint legs. I think it was around $1,000 and since it's almost all stainless (except the helm and coat of plates), it won't rust. However, I got the coat of plates used for a steal price of $100 or so. I don't have gauntlets for it, but you could probably get a similar suit for about $1,000 roughly. If you want to check out Mad Matt's site (he made the spaulders/splint arms/splint legs, and my sabatons in my avatar pic), here's his site:

http://www.madmattsarmory.com/

Sir Brian should be able to refer you to sources for his armor. I believe it is also Mercenary's Tailor, but I'm not 100% sure.