Want to start an armor kit

[Lord Dane]

Mine is almost 5lbs if that is heavy.

[Sir Wolf]

what del tin do you have?? none of mine are that heavy

[Lord Dane]

what del tin do you have?? none of mine are that heavy

DT2135 Late 13th Century Del Tin

[Ian]

The advertised weight is 3lbs 2.8 oz, blunt.  That's a pretty reasonable weight for that sword.

[Sir Wolf]

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=DT5159&name=Del+Tin+15th+Century+Infantry+Sword i have this one. its 2 lbs 4 ozs

[Lord Dane]

I had some work on it... the hilt I kept but replaced the blade w/ Damascus steel. It's much heavier than what it was when I bought it. I'll post the pics with new kit.

[Sir James A]

Indeed, good point Sir Edward, and thank you.

While I do want to eventually work up to having a full plate kit, I feel like right now I should just start with something a little different.  I spoke with Sir Edward today at VARF about it.  What I was thinking was a chain maille shirt, then some plate for around my shoulders and down my main arm, then some on my left, and of course some leg protection.  Sort of like Morgause's from Merlin (though I'm honestly sort of thinking closer along the lines of Arthur's).

While I did find I liked a few of the effigies from the mid to late 14th century, I'm still looking through them.

Also, swords are an important part of the ensemble as well, so if anyone has recommendations on longswords (so I don't end up with a crappy one), that'd be great.

IceFalcon.com has a sale on mail shirts right now. It would be a good start.

I had some work on it... the hilt I kept but replaced the blade w/ Damascus steel. It's much heavier than what it was when I bought it. I'll post the pics with new kit.

It's not the out of the box weight, so it's not a very good comparison. Standard weight for Del Tins is fine, yours is heavier, but if you're happy with it that's what counts.

[Sir Edward]

Del Tins have a reputation for being a little heavy in feel... that is, blade-heavy. It's more a balance detail than actual weight.

[LadyRiona]

Arming clothes aside, because I can make those myself, I think a hauberk will be my first purchase, when I can afford one.  This might be a silly question, but what is recommended: steel or titanium?  Does it just depend on affordability, or does it affect how it functions/lasts/etc?  And I know that aluminum is one of those "appearances only" materials.

[Ian]

Titanium is a very strong and very light, however it's not only expensive but has no historical precedent whatsoever.  It might as well by made of kryptonite if historical accuracy is an interest.  If that's not a concern, Ti has a lot of the strengths and appearance of steel, but the weight of aluminum.  Maille in period would have been made from drawn iron wire, so steel is the best we can do nowadays.

I would strongly encourage tackling arming garments first.  Everything else must be sized to you in padded garments, or you will be doing a lot of re-purchasing.  This is a mistake a lot of us have made, because the desire to buy armor is a lot more exciting than the parts you can't see underneath it, but please take our advice on this.

[Ian]

More importantly, I want a historical authentic kit, not a fantasy kit.  I'm a renaissance reenactor, so "historical" is bludgeoned into my brain.

What I was thinking was a chain maille shirt, then some plate for around my shoulders and down my main arm, then some on my left, and of course some leg protection.  Sort of like Morgause's from Merlin (though I'm honestly sort of thinking closer along the lines of Arthur's).

Also, please understand that these two statements are in direct conflict with one another.  I'm a huge Merlin fan, but nothing they wear in that show is close to any historical armor.  What Bradley James (Arthur) is wearing has no precedent in history.  It's very much fantasy armor.  Building a fantasy kit can be just as rewarding as a historically based kit, but know that both Arthur and Morgause's armor would be much more at home in a D&D campaign than a medieval battlefield.  A fantasy based kit will be easier to make because it's only limited by aesthetics and creativity, and if that's the direction you want to go we're all here to help, but if you prefer a historically based kit, then we can also advise you very well with that.  Just go in to a historical kit with the understanding that there do exist some limitations as to what goes with what, and depending on how accurate you want to go, things change over 20 year time frames and from country to country.  That being said, when you get a good historically based kit done well, it's very rewarding in my opinion.

[Sir James A]

Sir Ian covered titanium and the historical/fantasy aspect very well. You can also do a "garniture" and have swappable pieces to do "Merlin" or "historical" by having period matching legs/arms/spaulders and a separate "fantasy" set while still using the same arming clothes, mail, etc.

The only thing I have to add is that while I always suggest arming clothes before armor, mail is the one exception I make on that, simply because it's a "small/medium/large" purchase by standard sizing and isn't going to be specifically custom fit or tailored like proper plate would be. edit: Exception being if you're right at the edge of the size limits on it, in which case, remember it's easier to remove rings than to add

Small note, a "hauberk" is a full-sleeved shirt that will go to roughly your knees. A haubergeon will go to about mid-thigh, and is a half-sleeve (short sleeve) item. In the picture below, it's a haubergeon:



Edit: Seems the image broke now. Try this: http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/merlin-on-bbc/images/27615287/title/aithusa-arthur-photo?ir=true

[Sir Brian]

I would strongly encourage tackling arming garments first.  Everything else must be sized to you in padded garments, or you will be doing a lot of re-purchasing.  This is a mistake a lot of us have made, because the desire to buy armor is a lot more exciting than the parts you can't see underneath it, but please take our advice on this.

Absolutely! Sir Ian's advice is an echo of my numerous bad purchases of finding the 'perfect' gambeson! I could have purchased several nice pieces of plate armor or another Albion with all the money I wasted on inadequate or dead-end gambesons. Also bear in mind that as a foundation for your armor you can very easily build upon your arming clothes with some very cool and historically accurate pieces such as Jack Chains.

[Sir Wolf]

Sir Ian covered titanium and the historical/fantasy aspect very well. You can also do a "garniture" and have swappable pieces to do "Merlin" or "historical" by having period matching legs/arms/spaulders and a separate "fantasy" set while still using the same arming clothes, mail, etc.

The only thing I have to add is that while I always suggest arming clothes before armor, mail is the one exception I make on that, simply because it's a "small/medium/large" purchase by standard sizing and isn't going to be specifically custom fit or tailored like proper plate would be. edit: Exception being if you're right at the edge of the size limits on it, in which case, remember it's easier to remove rings than to add

Small note, a "hauberk" is a full-sleeved shirt that will go to roughly your knees. A haubergeon will go to about mid-thigh, and is a half-sleeve (short sleeve) item. In the picture below, it's a haubergeon:

lol you know i always wanted to do that armoured picture like the tv show.

[B. Patricius]

Also,

if you need any help at all with the foundation garments, let me re-iterate some advice, some of which I know has already been said:

depending on the period you wish to represent will depend on how these garments are made.

either they can be armor in and of themselves like mine, or they can be little more than something to hold your armor on to.

For example, my kit is an "earlier period" representation.  I'm an early 13th century Knights Templar.  This picture is from Osprey publishing on the Knights Hospitalier, but the kit is very similar minus the color of robe and cross:


For my period, we have basically two padded garments:
aketon underneath the mail (fig6 in the drawing)
and
gambeson over the mail that can be sleeveless (fig9 in the drawing)
For my kit, I have an aketon underneath the mail that's about 1/8" thick and a 1/4" thick gambeson on over my maile.  I don't have my mail done yet, but I was able to borrow a friends to make sure the gambeson fit.  Silly me, like others here that was actually the first garment I made, and it was made way too large.  Basically my first "aketon" became my gambeson.

Also, my soft armor is made out of pure cotton, with cotton batting, and machine stitched.  I fight in it, and I sweat in it ALOT.  So I wanted it machine washable.

My aketon has 1" channels for more stiffness
My gambeson has 2" channels and two layers of batting for more loft.  I made all the patterns myself to me.  If you need or want help with this I can help out if you'd like.

Beyond these garments, with the inventions of more plate, it evolved into the "pourpoint" like Sir Ian has, that "Tailoress" over on the armourarchive has made a beautiful pattern for.  This is more a 14th century period garment, think 100 Years War, "Cantebury Tales," "A Knights Tale," the Black Prince Edward, etc etc.

Beyond this garment, it really became more of something just to point your armour too with little or no padding within it.  This is far beyond my researched time period and something I know little about.  However, there are plenty of us here that do know this very well.  THIS is the period of the "Knight in Shining Armour" and a ton of plate everywhere, like in Sir James' Avatar.

I hope this helped some for your padded garments.  And like everyone else has said, this really can define the rest of your kit, and make it far more comfortable and forgiving, or miserable to wear.