Satan as god's Judge, not his adversary.

[Sir Omera]

The original hebraic named of 'Satan' means 'accuser'. Muslims associate anything 'satan' as evil, meaning if you were caught being an infidel, a muslim may tell you "Be banished back to the depths you satans!", but this is where the meaning of the word is lost.

Satan was far from an agent of evil, and originally his job was to judge men after death to see whether they would be permitted to enter heaven or not.


I've presented a radical view for a chivalry forum, and here I will tell about myself.

I'm a satanist. I'm 19, live on my own with a LuciFARIAN (think Luciferianism as in enlightenment, than FARIAN as in Rasta). I work, and pay bills. I do not sit in my SSI sponge mother's basemen hexing people at a black candle. An assumed role of justice is taken when black magick is needed, and people have been beat and sent to jail for bothering me (by other, unaffiliated people- Nergal dislikes crackhead ghetto school bullies, and I'm sure the underworld slavemaster god of fucking people up had no problem performing the task- get back in line, -peasant-.)

I'm a Satanist, but I believe in god, for the prescribed reason above. The world is too complex, and too intricate, and too beautiful for us to say god doesn't exist, even if he is merely our creation supposed to have created us. In my eyes, gushes of blood in the midst of war, severed heads mounted on pikes of a tyrannical lord of the estate, are equally as beautiful parts of nature as insights of compassion on psychedelics, or meditatively seeing a unity that can't be described in words, and known best summed up as 'beauty'.

But people have forgotten the necessary virtue of Severity. They've also forgotten the virtue which took us from barbarism to civilization- Empire (whether through economics or force, and yes I consider this a personal name for a personal virtue despite empire being a noun). Too much talk of peace is done while just enough of the world doesn't care and wants to drop nuclear warheads on their neighbors. Too much talk of charity, when most of these charities are untrue to where their funds go. Mankind has forgotten that he is a warrior. Mankind has forgotten that life is war, and so he seeks to end the cycle of life by ending war, and this can mean only one thing: Everybody dies, ensuring that war no longer exists. 

I am pro feminist, the devil is a gentleman.
I believe in order.
I believe in the Law, whatever the truth of the Law may be.


That is all for now.

[Sir Edward]

Hey there, welcome to the forum!

I should note that discussions of religion in general are considered "off topic" and beyond the scope of this forum (politics are in this category too, as an aside). However, as an introduction of yourself, or within the scope of how it relates to chivalry or knights is certainly permissible. I just want to point this out again to everyone so that replies and further discussion in this thread can be kept within the bounds of what the forum permits.

On the topic at hand, I think you'll find that your particular take on things may be in the minority here. However it certainly isn't lost on folks, that as warriors, knights and by extension Chivalry, are deeply entwined with mortality and the taking of lives. As C.S. Lewis put it, chivalry demands both ferocity and meekness, in full measure.

One of the more compelling recruitment tools during the Crusades was the idea that by taking a pilgrimage to the holy land, or serving in the crusades, could serve as a form of absolution for your prior deeds. Many knights were conflicted about being both a good Christian, and a killer, and so it was desirable to seek absolution.

How these historical elements become reflected in a modern sense of chivalry is part of the challenge, to interpret it into the modern world in a meaningful way while still preserving the spirit in which it was created.

EDIT: One thing that I will add is that personally, it seems that satanism is directly at odds with Chivalry. Am I correct in that it primarily is about doing what you want to do, what compels you personally? Chivalry is more about doing what is right for others.

[Sir Omera]

I don't propose to know whats 'true'. I might be closer to the attitude of the more tyrannical knights, the bossy, arrogant, law-enforcing type.

It doesn't matter to me, Knights are just inspiring. And like occultism, like satanism, the source of the path is what inspires you to go on the path.

I'll probably meditate on virtues, some of my own making.I'll probably structure it to something relevantly occult, such as Mercy/Severity on the tree of life, and devise rituals for the goal of attaining them  in the spirit.

I used to be a stereotypical 'black magick' kiddy and moved on to the higher goals of transcendence and getting money.

Many say money is the 'root of all evil', but a nation without money is called third world, and evil things happen there. They have less than other countries, and are constantly troubled with internal strife. Nobody wants to invade them, usually, because they have nothing worth invading for.

[SirNathanQ]

"One thing that I will add is that personally, it seems that satanism is directly at odds with Chivalry. Am I correct in that it primarily is about doing what you want to do, what compels you personally? Chivalry is more about doing what is right for others."

Yes, I too am really wondering about this.

Welcome. I myself am Roman Catholic, so we will probably find ourselves at opposite ends of most viewpoints, though I hope it would have no bearing on natural and good civility and reasonable discourse.

Principally, you seem to think that to be both strong and truly Christian is irreconcilable. I at one time struggled with my beliefs, and my desire to be powerful and strong. Knighthood and Chivalry is the joining, the marriage if you will, of those two concepts. To be strong for strength's sake is to lord it over others, but to hold strength with the oath, and commitment to use it for good, is a noble thing, and the idea at the core of Knighthood.

And the teachings of the Church are that Satan was the highest of God's creation, but he rebelled against God when he would not serve man, as part of God's plan. For that, Satan and his dark angels here cast into hell, where they seek to ruin and take with them to hell as many men as possible before the final judgment. 

[Sir James A]

And like occultism, like satanism, the source of the path is what inspires you to go on the path.

He who walks the Path simply to reach the Source has missed the entire point of the Path from the very first step of the journey.

[Thorsteinn]

Welcome!

Jewish Atheist here.

I choose to walk the Path because I know I can choose not to.

(BTW history-wise the word "Ba'al" was an ancient god from a neighboring pantheon and became slang in Hebrew for "the other". Thusly Odin, Ganesh, Thunderbird, & Raiden would also be "Ba'al".)

[Sir Edward]

Principally, you seem to think that to be both strong and truly Christian is irreconcilable. I at one time struggled with my beliefs, and my desire to be powerful and strong. Knighthood and Chivalry is the joining, the marriage if you will, of those two concepts. To be strong for strength's sake is to lord it over others, but to hold strength with the oath, and commitment to use it for good, is a noble thing, and the idea at the core of Knighthood.

Completely agreed here. "Core" is just the right word too. It's not about showing strength or ferocity for their own sake, but for the right cause. And to temper these with meekness where appropriate.

For a really great description of this, C.S.Lewis wrote an essay called "The Necessity of Chivalry", which you can read through Google-Books:

The Necessity of Chivalry

[Lord Dane]

Greetings. Welcome to the forum. As I personally do not judge people for their views, beliefs, and/or practices ... I share in Sir Nathan's sentiments on how they reflect on one's morality and character. I am far from anyone to talk about being the most ideal person, it is our good nature that reflects our humanity and tends to decide what actions we take in regards to life. Perfecting oneself in a knightly manner means to self-improve in every aspect of yourself and tends to not be limited. But it should at least be a reflection of ideals that exemplify you in the eyes of others in a good sense of decency.

Goodwill, respect, fairness, etc are traits guided by your upbringing, beliefs, and person you are. Words and actions in contrast to one' s beliefs make a person 'hypocritical' or a 'liar' but in sync, make you consistent and truthful about yourself. I have seen both sides of this from my own self-reflection and what I do in life dealing with others. You are judged by the actions you take which will also decide if your deeds are in fact by virtue 'chivalrous'. Those in this forum attempt to reflect these ideals.

[Sir William]

Welcome to the site, Omera.  Had some questions.

I'm a satanist. I'm 19, live on my own with a LuciFARIAN (think Luciferianism as in enlightenment, than FARIAN as in Rasta). I work, and pay bills. I do not sit in my SSI sponge mother's basemen hexing people at a black candle. An assumed role of justice is taken when black magick is needed, and people have been beat and sent to jail for bothering me

This interests me- how did they bother you and how were they served?  Also, it seems you have little respect for your mother; I find that troubling to say the least, but to each their own.

I'm a Satanist, but I believe in god, for the prescribed reason above. The world is too complex, and too intricate, and too beautiful for us to say god doesn't exist, even if he is merely our creation-

When presenting opinions, it is best if you describe it as such, if only so as not to appear a charlatan.  Besides, if God is merely a creation, then by that logic so is Lucifer and all the rest.  Interesting, that.

In my eyes, gushes of blood in the midst of war, severed heads mounted on pikes of a tyrannical lord of the estate, are equally as beautiful parts of nature as insights of compassion on psychedelics, or meditatively seeing a unity that can't be described in words, and known best summed up as 'beauty'.

So...wanton brutality compares to an ecstatic high achieved by the use of hallucinogenics?  That's not necessarily an interesting idea, but it serves as a beacon into what drives you as a human being.

But people have forgotten the necessary virtue of Severity. They've also forgotten the virtue which took us from barbarism to civilization- Empire (whether through economics or force, and yes I consider this a personal name for a personal virtue despite empire being a noun). Too much talk of peace is done while just enough of the world doesn't care and wants to drop nuclear warheads on their neighbors. Too much talk of charity, when most of these charities are untrue to where their funds go. Mankind has forgotten that he is a warrior. Mankind has forgotten that life is war, and so he seeks to end the cycle of life by ending war, and this can mean only one thing: Everybody dies, ensuring that war no longer exists.

Tell us, if you would- what is your world experience?  By that I mean- what have you yourself experienced, beyond anything you might have read or heard on tv?

I am pro feminist, the devil is a gentleman.
I believe in order.
I believe in the Law, whatever the truth of the Law may be.

You say in the beginning that the meaning behind Satan is lost on us, as it is now just a synonym for evil and yet- you use a descriptor that seems to impart said view despite your stating otherwise.  A notable word choice, lets call it.  And let us visit the italicized remark- that the devil is a gentleman.  How could you know that?  What makes you think so?  Unless of course, you are using it to describe yourself- the qualifying remark being that you are pro-feminist OR you are approaching it from the standpoint that Lucifer is just another construct in which case he can be however you want him to be but it begs the question- what do you truly believe in? 

You mention that you believe in the law, whatever the truth of the law might be- tyrants have used much the same ideology to catastrophic effect; you might be familiar with the term 'just following orders' - I imagine you might since that is in effect what you are espousing here.  That is, regardless of the law, or its justice (or lack thereof), you believe in it- and most likely will follow along because of said belief.  Does that make you free-thinking as it seems you would like to be considered, or an automaton free of the concerns of man with regard to thought, action and consequence?  The Nazis aspired to the same principles...that they also dabbled in the black arts is probably of no surprise to you, is it?

Me, I'd rather rely on my intellect and wit to know the right and wrong of a situation, rather than having it spoonfed to me by someone else, be they terrestrial or otherworldy in origin; but that is just me.  Nice to have met you.

[RackThor]

Welcome Good Sir To The Forum.

[Joshua Santana]

Welcome! 

Torah Observant Christian (or referred as Messianic Jew) here.  Any questions in regards to this, PM me.

On the topic at hand, I think you'll find that your particular take on things may be in the minority here. However it certainly isn't lost on folks, that as warriors, knights and by extension Chivalry, are deeply entwined with mortality and the taking of lives. As C.S. Lewis put it, chivalry demands both ferocity and meekness, in full measure.

I agree and that is the commonality in which this Brotherhood is established. 

Principally, you seem to think that to be both strong and truly Christian is irreconcilable. I at one time struggled with my beliefs, and my desire to be powerful and strong. Knighthood and Chivalry is the joining, the marriage if you will, of those two concepts. To be strong for strength's sake is to lord it over others, but to hold strength with the oath, and commitment to use it for good, is a noble thing, and the idea at the core of Knighthood.

Sir Nathan speaks Truth here and I also attest this as well.  Knighthood and Chivalry are complimentary to my beliefs without any adding or negating any set viewpoint or perspective.

And the teachings of the Church are that Satan was the highest of God's creation, but he rebelled against God when he would not serve man, as part of God's plan. For that, Satan and his dark angels here cast into hell, where they seek to ruin and take with them to hell as many men as possible before the final judgment.

 

This can also be found in the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek Texts as well.

Putting aside religious beliefs, if Honor is the common bridge in which we all can understand and respect each other, then I see no problem. 

[SirNathanQ]

"Putting aside religious beliefs, if Honor is the common bridge in which we all can understand and respect each other, then I see no problem. "

Amen to that, Sir Joshua! Well spoken!

[Hrolfr]

Do you look at your belief as Mordred to King Authur, Phillipe le Bel and the Templars, Ivan IV and the Kievians,  the crudasing Orders v the 'heretics' (and there are many different things that could cause this to occur)?

THAT young Sir is what is forming your opinion.

In the first, hatred.
In the second, greed
In the third, malice and distrust
In the last fervor (good or ill)

In my 5 plus decades on this earth, I have found most of the 'satanists' (small s) are looking for a was to make a statement (much like the 'Occupy' movements), while the large S 'Satanists' are truely twisted individuals.

The medival view of 'Satan'  was 'loosely' based on Attila the Hun, also know as "The Scourge of God".

The opponent of God (Jehovah) in the Old Testament was Lucifer, an angel who was cast from God's pressence for attempting to usurp God's authority.

JRR Tolkien used a similar allegory in The Silmarillion.  Melkor plays the part of 'Lucifer'. 

fwiw, this comes from a lasped Lutheran.

Might is not always right, but right is 

Mods, if I have stepped over the acceptable boundries, please feel free to edit or delete the entire post as you will.

[Sir Edward]

You're fine for now.

I am keeping a close eye on this thread though. I'll step in when I need to.

[Sir William]

Seems the Original Poster hasn't been on since 3/18...anyone think he'll be back?