Bascinet Visor dating

[SirNathanQ]

Has anyone else seen this on Therionarms?
http://therionarms.com/reenact/therionarms_c1405.html

I quite like the looks of it, and it looks protective and solid. Also quite menacing.
Therion's website states that that specific type of visor would be worn in the late 14th/early 15th century, but I find some images in the Romance of Alexander (Much earlier, 1st half of the 14th century) that have bascinets with extremely similar visors.

My question is, would that style of visor be plausible, or correct for 1350? I am inclined to think so, as the images from the Romance show some EXTREMELY similar visors.

[SirNathanQ]

Here are the images from the Romance of Alexander (which is apparently dated 1335-48)

[Ian]

Here's Hal's thread on MyArmoury, not 100% on the dating but the photo at the bottom of the suspected original is a pretty badass looking helmet

http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=26515&highlight=

[Sir Edward]

I'm not real big on dating helmets. I'd rather go out with women.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Ian]

I'm not real big on dating helmets. I'd rather go out with women.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Ba-Zing!!

[Sir Wolf]

hmmm i will have to check my books. it was on the AA. a lot of ppl think it's a bad design of a certain helmet. i kinda think it's cool looking, but can see where it's peak can be an issue

[SirNathanQ]

I'm not real big on dating helmets. I'd rather go out with women.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Man, milady will NOT be happy bout this one. "You're doing what with an inanimate object!?!"

[SirNathanQ]

Hmmm, I was actually thinking myself that that was a rather poor representation of the original, but IMO it compares rather well with the Romance image that I provided. In the first image, the only difference is the shape of the "jaw" of the visor. 

[Leganoth]

omg that helmet is SICK.

[Ian]

Hmmm, I was actually thinking myself that that was a rather poor representation of the original, but IMO it compares rather well with the Romance image that I provided. In the first image, the only difference is the shape of the "jaw" of the visor. 

As far as the reproduction helmet goes, I can't really get behind the aesthetics of the skull.  The shaping just looks wrong and not really historical.  The visor looks pretty nice though.  I just love that severe high point on the manuscript images.  For a mass-produced helmet it's not bad, but it was a little ambitious for that type of manufacturing to try and capture such a striking helmet.

If this really is the original helmet, the repro doesn't compare.

[SirNathanQ]

As far as the shaping goes, I think it works for about 1360-70, where they have the deeper shape and are evolving towards that high pointed skull, but it's just not completely there yet.

GDFB uses the same generic bascinet shape for their designs, so I think it was a dumb choice on their part to say it's based off of something so exotic as the original.

[Lord Dane]

I'm not real big on dating helmets. I'd rather go out with women.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Man, milady will NOT be happy bout this one. "You're doing what with an inanimate object!?!"

As you do not know where that helmet has been Sir Nathan, I suggest proper protection before intimacy. Oh wait ... because the helmet is used for protection ... is it even necessary??? Hmmmm

[SirNathanQ]

A protection within a protection? It's too unstable! BWOOOOM!!!! 

[Sir James A]

The original reminds me of this (http://castlewiki.castlecrashers.com/index.php?title=Conehead).

The repro, I have no idea on what period it would be, but it looks to me like a klappvisor, just with a different visor. The shape of the crown, the aventail attachment.

[Sir Edward]

The difficulty with the 14th century is that things were changing so rapidly that it's hard to pin things down to a specific decade. What might catch on quickly in one place may take time to get picked up somewhere else too. And we often see a blending of various elements, particularly in the middle of the century.

So I think the estimates for mid-14th are probably fine, and you can probably fudge it a little in either direction. The artwork for the Romance of Alexander is pretty compelling, I think, and gives you a good basis to work from.