Main > The Courtyard

John Clement, not being knightly.... again.

<< < (7/18) > >>

Sir Brian:

--- Quote from: Ian on 2013-07-07, 15:12:46 ---
--- Quote from: Hrolfr on 2013-07-07, 13:18:04 ---If someone needs to tear someone else down in order to feel better about themselves, they are a 't**d in a punchbowl'.

--- End quote ---
vs.

--- Quote from: Hrolfr on 2013-07-07, 13:18:04 ---I would really like to see Clements fight Nissan with BotN rules  ;D
(and yeah, I have fought against and with Nissan in both melee and singles).

--- End quote ---

Isn't that the same thing?

What purpose would John Clements fighting anyone with BotN rules serve?  BotN and Armored Combat League have virtually nothing to do with the historical technique of Liechtenauer or Fiore, or anything from our past for that matter.  It's just a brawl in armor using swords as clubs.  Sure it's a tough sport, and cool to watch, but it has nothing to do with the techniques people like John Clements, Greg Mele, Christian Tobler etc are interested in reviving.  You just want to see someone get beat up, isn't that the same as bringing someone else down to feel better about oneself? 

John Clements can be very abrasive.  That's his personality, but to pretend like he's not a good swordsman is denying a fact staring everyone in the face.  He just seems to be the guy who likes to take his ball and go home if others don't see things his way, but his accomplishments in the world of historical swordsmanship cannot be overlooked.

--- End quote ---

Well stated Sir Ian and absolutely spot on. Nobody can deny that John Clements is passionate and dedicated about his study of the various HEMA disciplines. If we were to compare the HEMA world to the world of Harry Potter, John Clement would be Severus Snape who afterall, was far more than he appeared to be as well as being exceptionally skilled in his craft.  ;)

Sir James A:

--- Quote from: Sir Brian on 2013-07-07, 23:16:55 ---Well stated Sir Ian and absolutely spot on. Nobody can deny that John Clements is passionate and dedicated about his study of the various HEMA disciplines.

--- End quote ---

Seconded! Thank you Sir Ian for putting that into perspective.

I may have neglected to mention it in here, but John Clements is the reason that I am even interested in WMA/HEMA at all.

I've long had the interest in medieval armor and weapons, however, the knowledge from that interest all drew from the "typical" sources - Hollywood movies (Excalibur, First Knight, A Knight's Tale, Black Knight, Robin Hood, etc), Renn Faire shows, and choreographed stage combat of "thrust, parry, thrust, parry" or "awkwardly and slowly swinging this sword-thing like a grunting caveman club" (Crude and slow, clansman, crude and slow). Let's just say I had a normal modern-day mindset of medieval combat, and it didn't match up with actual historical manuscripts at all. I had been looking around the internet for any local SCA practices when I found the ARMA forums and there was a thread about Clements coming to do non-SCA "real sword" classes about a half hour from me, so I signed up...

When I met him in person he was not as unruly as he is in most of his writings; he is also extremely passionate and he's very knowledgeable (whether people agree or disagree with his interpretations is another thread). He did smack down on the SCA, which may have been since I mentioned SCA as my only medieval combat experience (he went around the room and had everyone introduce themselves). It could have been because everything he taught about blade handling had nothing to do with the SCA methods, saying a sword is a sword and not a club, he covered binding, etc.

The class with him was the first WMA/HEMA exposure I had at all. From the start I was in awe of how he handled the sword; 15 years of owning them and I had *never* seen such gracefulness *and* aggression. It's hard to match his physical enthusiasm and aggression in some of his videos when compared to others. He noticed that I was behind the others in grasping the basic guards and strikes; it may have helped I was the only one without a red shirt, which I learned later in the day meant I was the only non-ARMA member there. He didn't say "you slow, boy?" or anything to that effect; he paused what he was teaching and asked if I needed help, and showed me what I was doing wrong.

The class was a couple hours (2, maybe 3?) long, although it all felt a blurry whirlwind of excitement. After class was over, they went to lunch there in town (walking distance). I got to go as well, which was a nice gesture as I was the "odd one out" being the only non-member there. Everyone sat around and talked, I wasn't left out of any conversations, and it was pleasant. After lunch we went back, and there was a follow-up class... however at that point it was "the regular class is over" and "ARMA members only" for the after-lunch portion. I was okay with that since it was not advertised as being a two-part class, so I got what I paid for. I was saddened that there was an online process to go through for applying and approval for membership in the group, as it meant I couldn't ask "Can I join you guys?" on the spot (as the founder/main guy was right there). I always wondered what happened at that second part.

I applied online, but never got an acceptance, which I guess is implied rejection. I didn't own an Albion, I had never heard of one, and my only experience was SCA, and I didn't like the "what you learn here stays here" concept of being unable to share things with my brother or friends, so I'm not too shocked I wasn't accepted. After I learned more, it was clear we probably would not have meshed well philosophically.

After that, I went home with a completely new respect for the European style swords. Had I not gone to that class, even though I didn't end up in ARMA, and had I picked up the local SCA fighter practice again, I likely would have been down a far different path than I am now.

Sir Edward:

That's the thing, love or hate the guy, he does a lot to gain exposure for the sword-arts at large. He's passionate about it, is very skilled, and it shows. To some degree, we all have him to thank for helping to get historical sword combat into enough of a spotlight that we can actually have a modern resurgence of these arts. He was a pioneer in that regard.

It really comes down to a philosophical difference between his organization and the rest of the HEMA/WMA community (which itself can be further divided at times).

I just wish he didn't spend half the words in his writings disparaging everyone else. Make your point, and let it stand (or not) on its own. If you have to waste your breath disparaging everything else, there's a problem. It's just not necessary.

Because of the closed-door, drink the kool-aid, street-fighter sort of approach he's had lately, ARMA starts to come off as being the Cobra Kai of the HEMA world. Again, it's not really necessary, and it just sequesters them away from everyone else.

Sir Wolf:
don't make me go all crane front kick to your chin!

Thorsteinn:
Until he's willing to prove what he knows against a resisting opponent who isn't of his tradition, on camera, he will always come off to me like the Kiai Master in the fight vid below IE the "My Awesomeness is too awesome for you! If I used it on you you would explode from my sheer awesomeness which is why I don't fight".

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page