Pointing for maille?

[Sir Ulrich]

Is there any ways to reduce the amount of weight distribution for maille, cause I had only a 20 pound hauberk and by the end of 4 hours I was totally out of it and my back was killing me. Is there a way to point maille so that it more evenly distributes the weight across you?

[Thorsteinn]

Yes.

Aside from a belt which you then blouse the maille above you can also put a tie at the neck and one above the bicep, elbow, and at the wrist. There is also some evidence that the Hauberks at Hastings were pointed and sewn onto the gambesons, especially at the neck, wrists, and bottom.

Also, there is a reason it was thought a good idea for all knights to run a mile in their Hauberks once a day.



EDIT: Full Intensity/Speed/Power sparring burns 880 calories per hour before adding in the armour. A wise man said that a fight may be won on the field but it can be lost in the Gym.

[Sir Wolf]

Looks like your gonna neex to eat your wheeties annd get bigger man. I dunno what else to tell you. A thin gamesom may help but choosing lighter colored clothing may help with the suns heat a lil.

[Sir Edward]

Mail will also more evenly distribute if it's tailored well. This is the part that no one does... basically, the shoulders should have a slight slant to them instead of just a pure straight edge, since the tops of your shoulder slant. There should be expansion areas over the shoulder blades, and the body should taper in a little at the waist (if you're thin, which you are), and then flare out again over the hips.

This is such a pain to do well, and still be able to get in and out of it, that it's completely understandable to skip it.

Short of that you can of course simulate a better fit with ties, which they would have used anyway back in the day, as others are pointing out. I'd consider having a lace to cinch in the waist if you don't want to pull it up over a belt (the belt trick works great, but you have to make it reasonably tight, depending on how well the armor fits you, etc).

Sometimes I cheat and wear foam pads over my shoulders, inside the gambeson. It helps quite a lot. I just cut out elongated trapezoids of blue camping foam, and shove them in.

Lacing in a variety of other places as people have mentioned above will help a lot too.

[Joshua Santana]

I am getting a lot of great info here and although I won't be wearing mail, the same principlles to apply to plate armor.

[SirNathanQ]

Learn to move with your armour. Don't fight it. firstoff, adjust your stance. A sloping back will kill you in maille. As Sir Wolf also pointed out, building muscle mass will help. My maille has no real body tailoring, but posture and my build (and I don't regularly lift wieghts either) makes it so the heat gets to me before the muscle fatigue.

[Frater de Beaumanoir]

Repeated wearing and conditioning will be your answer. Even today's warriors wearing IBA have issues with heat. They do exercises in most cases 5 out of 7 days a week. If you're not drinking the appropriate fluids before, during and after, you're body will be the first to let you know.

Try mowing the yard in mail (yes...I do), it helps keep me in the zone, that and having to teach young warriors on a daily basis.

[SirNathanQ]

I have to wonder, does the Grandmaster pretend tht the grass is in fact an army of little green Saracens? 

[Sir Ulrich]

Well considering body tailoring+sleeve tailoring is what my hauberk needs, I think I could EASILY do the body tailoring as all I really need to do is widen the bottom so I can put it on easier. Just need a source of a sheet of maille to cut and widen it with. Could always make my own but thats time consuming, unless anyone has some spare maille sheets I could buy off of them to widen the bottom of the hauberk. May just make my own though, got plenty of rings to do that with as I was gifted the large bag of rings.

Would something like this work better for keeping the maille from digging into my shoulders:
http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AB3947&name=Padded+Gorget+%2D+White
I'd get it in black of course but I think this would work better than using non period foam or something.

[Ian]

Well considering body tailoring+sleeve tailoring is what my hauberk needs, I think I could EASILY do the body tailoring as all I really need to do is widen the bottom so I can put it on easier. Just need a source of a sheet of maille to cut and widen it with. Could always make my own but thats time consuming, unless anyone has some spare maille sheets I could buy off of them to widen the bottom of the hauberk. May just make my own though, got plenty of rings to do that with as I was gifted the large bag of rings.

Would something like this work better for keeping the maille from digging into my shoulders:
http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AB3947&name=Padded+Gorget+%2D+White
I'd get it in black of course but I think this would work better than using non period foam or something.

To acquire a big sheet of maille without buying a whole separate hauberk just to rip spare maille from, you could consider purchasing a maille skirt and cannibalize maille off of that.  It's not as cheap as making it yourself, but it's a compromise between that and buying a much larger garment to cannibalize.

[Sir James A]

Couple quick thoughts:

Even though you're a smaller-framed guy, it's not so much muscle mass that will make it easier, but cardio. Think runners. They're not buff big burly guys, but what you want for wearing armor long-term is endurance. Muscle will help get it on and lift it for a bit, but if you don't have the endurance, you're done. Cardio is key.

Call / email IceFalcon. I vaguely recall him selling regular "patches" of mail (12" x 12" maybe?) that people could use for adding gussets / expansions / etc. If he doesn't have it online in the store, he can probably get it since he works with the manufacturer. And he's a really easy guy to talk to, and since he fights too, he knows what you'll want it for.

[Sir Ulrich]

My main problem is I hold my breath when I do straining stuff and I have no clue why... Maybe I will just go hiking in maille once a week till I get used to it. Thats the only reason I dont wear it often is I need help to put it on. I was going pretty far though with 27 pounds of armor on me plus a 2 pound sword, plus a 7 pound shield. The 5 pound kettle helm I have was a bit excessive and I had to take it off. I am starting to think I should lift weights more and gain more strength on TOP of my usual hike routine. Years ago I lifted weights on every other day basis and I channeled my inner rage to basically make myself more buff. Now I no longer have that rage and I lost the motivation to do it. Maybe I should do things that piss me off on purpose and channel my rage that way, cause I lift weights a lot more effectively when I am angry which gives me the energy to do it.

I am not sure if my maille is too small to put on cause it fits me fine when I wear it and it isnt that tight at all in fact it's a few inches loose. I just saw videos of people putting maille on and their shirts were smaller in width than mine and they were bigger than me, maybe my problem is how long my hauberk actually is and it's hard to stick my arms down into it plus the long sleeves make it rather hard.to do especially with my gambeson sleeves not tapering, also cut my hand up pretty badly so I am never putting it on without gloves on first ever again. Plus after I put it on my face is FILTHY with the black coating thats coming off of the maille. I guess putting a hauberk on is harder than putting on a haubergeon due to the sleeves and the fact my gambeson does NOT taper, it usually catches on the maille and I end up having to pull the sleeves down afterward.

[Joshua Santana]

My main problem is I hold my breath when I do straining stuff and I have no clue why

You need to breath when the body is under stress, holding your breath is not going to do much, relaxation is key. 

Years ago I lifted weights on every other day basis and I channeled my inner rage to basically make myself more buff. Now I no longer have that rage and I lost the motivation to do it. Maybe I should do things that piss me off on purpose and channel my rage that way, cause I lift weights a lot more effectively when I am angry which gives me the energy to do it.

Don't mix emotion with working out, that will make you loose motivation and you won't get far, workout to gain strength not a stress reliever (although it can have that effect if done properly)

I am not sure if my maille is too small to put on cause it fits me fine when I wear it and it isnt that tight at all in fact it's a few inches loose.

Sounds like you need a small gambeson or arming jacket that will fill in those few inches.  Taper the sleeves if you can or find a gambeson with tapered sleeves.  Do wear gloves although I never heard anyone getting their hand cut while putting on mail before. 

Do what you can to make things easier.

[Sir William]

Ulrich, best practice is to wear maille every day, even if its only for an hour or two.  Don't just sit or stand around, move- do deep knee bends, jog, run, hike- your muscles will get acclimated to the stress if you do it more regularly.  A few times a year isn't enough to build the required tolerance to bear the weight- as such you'll always feel tired and drained even if all you did was stand around wearing it. 

Posture is key, Nathan pointed that out- if you're used to slouching you'll need to train yourself to stand upright, shoulders back.  It does help if there are multiple areas were the maille is drawn in close to the body- a belt at the waist, ties at the elbow and even the wrist can go a long way toward mitigating the stress factor on your back.

Or, you can opt for aluminum maille and bypass the whole weight issue- I just got ahold of a full hauberk that might weigh 10 lbs- light enough so I don't even notice that it is on.  The trade off is that it is lighter so it is not protective, but if you're not fighting in it you needn't worry about wearing heavy steel unless you're so inclined, as it seems you are.  If that is the case- wear it every day and get to the point where you can put it on yourself.  There may always be something you'll need assistance with, especially with plate (although I watched Nathan don and point his plate arms and legs whilst talking with me and Sir Edward at VARF last year) but the more you can do yourself, the better off you'll be.  Once you get the hang of it, donning and taking off maille is no big deal...I do it all the time.

With regard to your slight build...it may surprise you to know that I was once as slim as you...in fact, I hit a growth spurt late in my teen years so I shot up from 5'2" my junior year to 5'9" my senior year and hit 6' by the time I turned 18- but I still only weighed 128 lbs!  I started putting on weight in my mid-20s and hovered at or near 170lbs for the next ten or so years, and I worked out regularly.  Now that I'm nearing 40, I'm finding keeping weight OFF to be the bear!  I miss the days of high metabolism and eat-anything diet!  I'm also pretty lazy when it comes to the gym these days...but muscle memory being what it is, it doesn't take me too long to get back in the swing of things...altho it does take longer than it used to. 

[Joshua Santana]

Ulrich, best practice is to wear maille every day, even if its only for an hour or two.  Don't just sit or stand around, move- do deep knee bends, jog, run, hike- your muscles will get acclimated to the stress if you do it more regularly.  A few times a year isn't enough to build the required tolerance to bear the weight- as such you'll always feel tired and drained even if all you did was stand around wearing it. 

Sir William is right.  One can say the same with plate armor.  It is not enough to walk, sit or stand in armor, one must run, jog, or roll on the ground to achieve physical conditioning and mobility while wearing the armor.  This is another way to gain bodily strength. 

Posture is key, Nathan pointed that out- if you're used to slouching you'll need to train yourself to stand upright, shoulders back.  It does help if there are multiple areas were the maille is drawn in close to the body- a belt at the waist, ties at the elbow and even the wrist can go a long way toward mitigating the stress factor on your back.

The way I like to think is "stand straight and courteous as possible (quoting Bolognese Fencing Master Achille Marozzo, 1536).  Correct posture makes a big difference when wearing the mail (or plate armor for that matter). 

With regard to your slight build...it may surprise you to know that I was once as slim as you...in fact, I hit a growth spurt late in my teen years so I shot up from 5'2" my junior year to 5'9" my senior year and hit 6' by the time I turned 18- but I still only weighed 128 lbs!  I started putting on weight in my mid-20s and hovered at or near 170lbs for the next ten or so years, and I worked out regularly.  Now that I'm nearing 40, I'm finding keeping weight OFF to be the bear!  I miss the days of high metabolism and eat-anything diet!  I'm also pretty lazy when it comes to the gym these days...but muscle memory being what it is, it doesn't take me too long to get back in the swing of things...altho it does take longer than it used to.

'

Yes, muscle memory is key to keeping fit and for training Fuhlen and Indes or Mezzo Tempo, Dui Tempi or Stesso Tempo (in the Fiore tradition or Bolognese School).  The key to real physical fitness is to simply be active, don't just sit at the computer all day long, why just do several activities such as jogging, running (in the maile) or by practicing your Art (Longsword, Sword and Buckler or Longsword and Sidesword and Buckler), cleaning up the house, stretching or teaching yourself the Art you choose will help you gain that level of physical fitness.  Also, don't shy away from attempting rolls, jumps, light footwork or cross training between different Arts (I train my German Longsword and I mix it up with I.33 + Medieval Sword and Buckler + Bolognese Sidesword and Buckler or Sidesword alone). 

I hope this helps in getting some ideas starting, only you can determine the level of fitness you want to achieve.  I know you will get there Sir Ulrich