"War is at first like a beautiful girl with whom all men long to play, but in the end like a repulsive hag whose suitors all weep and ache."
                -- Samuel Hanagid (993-1056)
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Late 14th C Heraldic Surcoat  (Read 18322 times)

Sir Patrick

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,647
  • Nex pro inhonesto, Deus pro totus.
    • The Order of the Marshal
Re: Late 14th C Heraldic Surcoat
« Reply #15 on: 2012-05-17, 02:53:02 »
Very nice!  It's funny, I've been kicking around doing appliques in felt for my surcoat, but wasn't sure about the "periodness" of it.  Since your stuff is always spot on, looks like I need to grab some felt!
Logged
Gules, a chevron argent between three cinquefoils ermine.
"Better to live one day as a lion, than a thousand as a lamb."
Knight, Order of the Marshal

Ian

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,994
Re: Late 14th C Heraldic Surcoat
« Reply #16 on: 2012-05-17, 03:14:22 »
Thank you, but be forewarned, I cannot vouch for the accuracy of appliqued felt. I'm really just guessing.  It was that or paint, and I didn't want to ruin my wife's efforts with a bad paint job by me.  I know felted wool was around, however, it's use on heraldic surcoats is purely a guess on my part.
Logged
My YouTube Channel - Knyght Errant
My Pinterest

Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

Sir Edward

  • Forum Admin
  • Commander of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,340
  • Verum et Honorem.
    • ed.toton.org
Re: Late 14th C Heraldic Surcoat
« Reply #17 on: 2012-05-17, 11:55:46 »
Silk appliques are period, but I have no idea about felt. (with the usual caveat that silk was super-expensive at the time)
« Last Edit: 2012-05-17, 11:56:19 by Sir Edward »
Logged
Sir Ed T. Toton III
Knight Commander, Order of the Marshal

( Personal Site | My Facebook )

Sir Wolf

  • He Who is Not to be Named
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,389
  • i have too many hats
    • man e faces
Re: Late 14th C Heraldic Surcoat
« Reply #18 on: 2012-05-17, 13:43:53 »
i have a feeling if they were not silk they were wool. linen color tends to run when wet and unravel when sewn. Felt would have meant wool felt. cotton would not have been used in Europe yet. I believe it was found in the Med. area as curtains.
Logged

Sir Brian

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 4,735
  • Felix uxor beatam vitam - Happy Wife Happy Life
    • Order of the Marshal
Re: Late 14th C Heraldic Surcoat
« Reply #19 on: 2012-05-17, 13:48:46 »
Quote from: Sir Edward on 2012-05-17, 11:55:46
Silk appliques are period, but I have no idea about felt. (with the usual caveat that silk was super-expensive at the time)

And like linen not always colorfast!  ;)
Logged
"Chivalry our Strength, Brotherhood our sword"
Vert, on a Chief wavy Argent a Rose Sable,
a Gryphon Segreant Or
[img width=100 height=100]
<a href="http://s221.photobucket.com/user/Tah908/media/LP_Medals_zpsq7zzdvve.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i221.photobucket.

Joshua Santana

  • Yeoman of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • **
  • Posts: 1,002
  • Honorare scutum meum, veritas mea gladio
Re: Late 14th C Heraldic Surcoat
« Reply #20 on: 2012-05-17, 14:31:25 »
I think wool or silk would be more period accurate but then again, linen is the caveat when it comes to historical garments.
Logged
Knight of The Lion Blade

Honora gladium meum, veritas mea, et SpirĂ­tui Sancto.  כדי לכבד המגן שלי, האמת שלי חרבי

Honor My Sword, Truth My Shield.

Sir William

  • Cogito ergo sum
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,154
Re: Late 14th C Heraldic Surcoat
« Reply #21 on: 2012-05-17, 14:36:56 »
I keep going back to the idea that the surcoats were made of silk as well, but can't remember where I read that.
Logged
The Black Knight, Order of the Marshal
'Per Pale Azure and Sable, a Chevron counterchanged fimbriated argent.' 
“Pride makes a man, it drives him, it is the shield wall around his reputation.  Men die, but reputation does not.”

Sir Edward

  • Forum Admin
  • Commander of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,340
  • Verum et Honorem.
    • ed.toton.org
Re: Late 14th C Heraldic Surcoat
« Reply #22 on: 2012-05-17, 15:32:17 »

Silk, wool, and linen are all appropriate. The problem with silk is it's less durable, and was ridiculously expensive. An entire surcoat entirely made of it would have been more expensive than the armor in all likelihood (perhaps considerably so). Only a very wealthy knight would do that. Smaller appliques would be more affordable, but still expensive.
Logged
Sir Ed T. Toton III
Knight Commander, Order of the Marshal

( Personal Site | My Facebook )

Sir William

  • Cogito ergo sum
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,154
Re: Late 14th C Heraldic Surcoat
« Reply #23 on: 2012-05-17, 15:33:48 »
Ok...that makes sense to me...I'm definitely not a wealthy knight.  Not in persona or in real.  LOL

But not leather, right?
Logged
The Black Knight, Order of the Marshal
'Per Pale Azure and Sable, a Chevron counterchanged fimbriated argent.' 
“Pride makes a man, it drives him, it is the shield wall around his reputation.  Men die, but reputation does not.”

Sir Edward

  • Forum Admin
  • Commander of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,340
  • Verum et Honorem.
    • ed.toton.org
Re: Late 14th C Heraldic Surcoat
« Reply #24 on: 2012-05-17, 15:36:58 »

Right, I don't think there's much evidence of leather being used for surcoats.
Logged
Sir Ed T. Toton III
Knight Commander, Order of the Marshal

( Personal Site | My Facebook )

Joshua Santana

  • Yeoman of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • **
  • Posts: 1,002
  • Honorare scutum meum, veritas mea gladio
Re: Late 14th C Heraldic Surcoat
« Reply #25 on: 2012-05-17, 18:29:11 »
Leather surcoates  :o  No way, I say go with linen or wool for a surcoat. 
Logged
Knight of The Lion Blade

Honora gladium meum, veritas mea, et SpirĂ­tui Sancto.  כדי לכבד המגן שלי, האמת שלי חרבי

Honor My Sword, Truth My Shield.

SirNathanQ

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,742
  • "Nobiscum Deus" "Libertas ad omnes civitates"
Re: Late 14th C Heraldic Surcoat
« Reply #26 on: 2012-05-17, 20:02:41 »
If anything, spare yourself the heat. Do not wear a leather surcoat!
Logged
"The maximum use of force is in no way incompatible with the simultaneous use of the intellect." -Carl Von Clausewitz
"He is truly a fearless knight and secure on every side, for his soul is protected by the armor of faith just as his body is protected by armor of steel." -Saint Bernard of Clairvoux

Joshua Santana

  • Yeoman of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • **
  • Posts: 1,002
  • Honorare scutum meum, veritas mea gladio
Re: Late 14th C Heraldic Surcoat
« Reply #27 on: 2012-05-18, 14:59:34 »
Quote
If anything, spare yourself the heat. Do not wear a leather surcoat!

Indeed!
Logged
Knight of The Lion Blade

Honora gladium meum, veritas mea, et SpirĂ­tui Sancto.  כדי לכבד המגן שלי, האמת שלי חרבי

Honor My Sword, Truth My Shield.

Sir William

  • Cogito ergo sum
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,154
Re: Late 14th C Heraldic Surcoat
« Reply #28 on: 2012-05-18, 15:45:56 »
Awwww!!!  They look really cool, but probably aren't.  lol

Logged
The Black Knight, Order of the Marshal
'Per Pale Azure and Sable, a Chevron counterchanged fimbriated argent.' 
“Pride makes a man, it drives him, it is the shield wall around his reputation.  Men die, but reputation does not.”

Joshua Santana

  • Yeoman of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • **
  • Posts: 1,002
  • Honorare scutum meum, veritas mea gladio
Re: Late 14th C Heraldic Surcoat
« Reply #29 on: 2012-05-18, 15:57:24 »
Quote
Awwww!!!  They look really cool, but probably aren't.  lol

NOOOOOOOO!  RUN AWAY SIR WILLIAM!  ;)
Logged
Knight of The Lion Blade

Honora gladium meum, veritas mea, et SpirĂ­tui Sancto.  כדי לכבד המגן שלי, האמת שלי חרבי

Honor My Sword, Truth My Shield.
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
« previous next »