Is Dr HS Thompson's death the result of an honorable act?

[Thorsteinn]

"Football Season Is Over"
by Dr. Hunter S. Thompson from Rolling Stone.

No More Games. No More Bombs. No More Walking. No More Fun. No More Swimming. 67. That is 17 years past 50. 17 more than I needed or wanted. Boring. I am always bitchy. No Fun – for anybody. 67. You are getting Greedy. Act your old age. Relax – This won’t hurt.
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Did Hunter Thompson act heroically/ Honorably/ Correctly/ Honestly/ Poorly/ Evilly... when he shot himself?

Discuss.

[Sir William]

There is no honor in suicide...it is essentially a cowardly act.  That he endured pain, a lot of it brought on by his own excesses in illicit drugs and alcohol, is really par for the course.  Your body can only endure so much abuse before it lets you know, unequivocally, that it can't take much more.  People deal with pain all of the time...you do, Ivan, I do, in some way, shape or form we all do.  Beyond physical, there is also the emotional pain...we each must deal as we can; taking the 'easy' way out because you can't 'take it anymore' isn't honorable or noble.

His life was a gift to him, as our own are to us...I see it as a slap to God's face because he fucked up his own life and now can't deal with it anymore.

[Ian]

There is no honor in suicide...it is essentially a cowardly act. 

What about in feudal Japan?

[Sir William]

Their culture calls it honorable but again, they did it to avoid facing retribution, capture, or out of abject misery because their master either commanded it, or was killed and so they performed it out of respect for said master.  Perhaps the last one can be seen as noble...but I still wouldn't call it honorable- realizing that it is my own belief system and values calling it so.

[Sir Edward]

There is no honor in suicide...it is essentially a cowardly act. 

What about in feudal Japan?

I think that boils down to a huge cultural difference between the East and West.

[Ian]

There is no honor in suicide...it is essentially a cowardly act. 

What about in feudal Japan?

I think that boils down to a huge cultural difference between the East and West.

In context I think the act of seppuku is for all intents and purposes an honorable act, because it was meant to be so, and was respected as one within the culture it was performed in.  I was just playing devil's advocate there anyway.  I don't really believe Hunter S Thompson's suicide would be considered an honorable act just because he felt like he was a drain on society, or not fun to be around anymore.

What about in the cases of badly suffering terminally ill patients?  Is it honorable to kill yourself when you're a burden on your family, and in such pain that extension of life is just extension of suffering?  I think it's selfish of us to impose our standard of what's honorable and not honorable to the person actually suffering.  For an interesting documentary on this subject, (I think it's Netflix streamable), check out the  film 'How to Die in Oregon.' http://www.howtodieinoregon.com/  (I know assisted suicide is a very touchy subject for some people, I'm not trying to start a debate, just some stuff to think about).

I seem to recall something about ancient societies, where the old and infirm would leave and go off to die of exposure to alleviate their burden on their families / clans etc.

edit:
And let's not forget intentionally getting yourself killed to save others in war.  That's essentially a form of suicide, most often recognized by the awarding of a medal of honor 

[Sir James A]

There is no honor in suicide...it is essentially a cowardly act. 

What about in feudal Japan?

I think that boils down to a huge cultural difference between the East and West.

Yep, and in most cases, seppuku was a way to regain lost honor, rather than to retain it. If you were defeated in battle, rather than be executed by your enemy, they would allow you to do it yourself. Betrayal of a feudal lord or otherwise could also have seppuku as the "penance". There's extenuating things such as committing suicide before interrogation so that the enemy doesn't get secret information that could sway the battle in their favor. Of course there are exceptions, as with any tradition in history.

As Sir Ian said, self sacrifice is a form of suicide. To me, that is noble; to give one's life to save another.

However, none of those circumstances apply in this case. It was cowardice and he was taking the 'easy' way out.

[Thorsteinn]

For Sir William:

You base your values upon Judeo-Christian premises yes? Well then I must ask about the Battle of Mosada where-in all but a few of the Jews committed suicide rather than be captured so as to deny the Romans a victory. It conforms to the spirit of Jewish Law & Culture while disobeying the rule. How do you reconcile that act given that most eastern European Jews consider them Hero's?
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For the rest:

And let's not forget intentionally getting yourself killed to save others in war.  That's essentially a form of suicide, most often recognized by the awarding of a medal of honor 

Like here for example:


or here:
http://badassoftheweek.com/stamfordbridge.html

It is also said that Cato, Brutus, Marc Anthony, & Cleopatra of Caesars time committed suicide to preserve Honor.

Thich Quang Duc self-immolated in quiet protest during the 1970's.


Were any of the above "acting Heroically/ Honorably/ Correctly/ Honestly/ Poorly/ Evilly/ Etc"?

-Ivan

BTW a Samurai could also commit suicide in protest of a command he did not want to carry out. Some dishonorable Daimyo would order Samurai they wished to dispose of to do something they knew the man in question would rather die than carry out.

A good example of this is in Highlander The Series where Duncan's friend, a Samurai in 16th cen Japan, must commit Seppuku to avoid dishonor for helping Duncan. In this Duncan receives a valuable lesson on the cost & glory of Honor in Japan at 33:00 in.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=JiJ0bMaTtuQ#t=2015s

Stir that pot? Yes I do!

[Sir James A]

One of my all-time favorite Highlander episodes. Had it on VHS and watched it all the time as a kid. It's also why I carry so much of my sword stroke from my shoulders instead of my hips - "Feel the power of the mountain flow down through you".

[Sir Edward]

I don't even need to play the video-- I remember that.

I have the whole series on DVD now. I re-watched it a couple years ago.

[Sir William]

Ivan, let me address the Battlefield scenario first- as I remember that part clearly.  He gave his life so that the others of his squad might have a better chance of survival...that he knew he would die in the act does not, by itself, constitute suicide in my opinion.  You could argue that what he did was 'altruistic suicide' - that is, he died so that others may live but that form is generally not considered 'suicide' as his death had meaning, the purpose being to save the lives of others. HIS was a courageous and honorable act- would you disagree?  The unnamed Viking who held Stamford Bridge long enough for his compatriots to get organized did so to buy his people time...again, not suicidal.  Oh, he might've been suicidal, but his actions do not constitute a suicide, especially since he was slain by the hand of another.

With regard to Masada, I thought it was just the one man who was tasked with killing everyone else, then himself?  So one suicide, and hundreds of murders- to avoid Roman enslavement; I suppose you could call that heroic in that they robbed the Romans of their victory...or did they?  Rome wanted to protect those palaces- the Jewish raiders who'd taken over were all dead so in the end, Rome got what it wanted.  At least as far as I look at it.

I have read where the Romans felt that to 'fall upon one's sword' was an honorable act, rather than facing 'the music' as it were.  Culture based, like the Japanese...but I don't consider it heroic or honorable to take one's own life for any reason, especially when that reason is to avoid something else thought to be worse than death.  Barring the instance where it is given so that others may be spared, which I do not consider suicide, but self-sacrifice.  There is a difference.

Thich Quang Duc...can't call him a coward, he didn't just knife himself or put a bullet to his head, he burned himself.  He killed himself to protest the persecution of his fellow Buddhists...I suppose you could classify that as being an instance where his life was given so that others may be spared?  It was courageous, even if the persecutions did not end w/his self-sacrifice...it wasn't until Diem was assassinated that things began to get better, but he did make it so that said atrocities were brought to light in the world eye.

Duncan's friend's act falls within the confines of his culture- his whole life revolved around Bushido, and I suppose to a lesser degree, shibui.  You also wrote: "BTW a Samurai could also commit suicide in protest of a command he did not want to carry out. Some dishonorable Daimyo would order Samurai they wished to dispose of to do something they knew the man in question would rather die than carry out."

I get the impression that the samurai in question knows in advance that it is simply a command designed to cause him to perform seppuku rather than carry out the order- if that is so, then his is a steadfast, if foolhardy adherence to custom.  It is one thing to know that you will die...we all must at some point, but to speed yourself along because someone else is making you do something you know to be wrong- and only does so because they know your honor would only allow one course- I cannot call that courageous, or honorable.

Keeping in mind that I have my own belief system for which this does not compute, but it is mine own opinion and I still stand by it.

[Thorsteinn]

@ Sir William: Thank you!

Just to clarify, I was not looking to put anyone down, but merely to start a discussion & see where y'all's heads were at.