Combat Of The Thirty video

[Thorsteinn]

Combat of the Thirty video from Pennsic War.

[Ian]

Great shots! 

I really long for the day that this level of kit would become the 'standard' for the SCA.  I don't want to start an SCA argument, but if CotT was the norm, boy oh boy the SCA would be absolutely awesome.  And, as I understand it, the rules of the game are a little different during CotT in that armor actually protects the body part it's worn on.  I never understood the rules of heavy list in that armor doesn't serve it's purpose.  You get hit in the arm, you lose your arm... well, that's why I'm wearing armor, so that very thing doesn't happen... doesn't make sense to me.  It ends up putting you at a disadvantage in the sport to wear full armor, which I never understood. 

Are there more things like CotT within the SCA?  I understand the Deed of Arms at Gulf Wars might be similar?

[Thorsteinn]

COTT is what happens when you have a hosted tourney instead of a standard.

Pas d'Arms happen all the time and can have many different rules. We even did an eastern themed one once.

[James Barker]

I have been in a number of the 30s; I skipped it this year because I was a bit sick on Sunday. If this was how the SCA was most of the time I would fight way more. It is so much more fun than the standard tournament or melee style.

[SirNathanQ]

So how do the different rules compare? & BTW, how does one defeat his foe if he is fully armoured the in COTT or similar tourneys?

[Sir William]

I'd be more interested in the SCA if they used rebated steel, instead of rattan.  Oh, and if the general attitude wasn't so shitty (my perception based on my experiences with some members of the SCA). 

Loved the vid, I caught onto what this guy was doing a couple months ago...I think its great because it'll give greater visibility, and by showcasing events like CoTT the focus is less on rhino types and more about how a true battle may have played out.  Those guys certainly look damn good out there!

[SirNathanQ]

I think rebated steel would ruin the actual appeal of it, that it's full-contact & full force. I've done demos with rebated steel, and one really has to keep on their toes, even with pulled blows.

I want to try SCA sometime. I like the aspect of fighting with hundreds or thousands on a field at once, and it sounds like a real ball of fun.

[James Barker]

Sorry I did not see the earlier question about the rules.

The CotT rules are this:

3 solid strikes in a row from a mass weapon, long sword, or polearm to the head you are captured.

Armor is as worn, maille on legs and arms are counted as protection, none is no protection. A thrust to an open area like the under arms, back of the leg, groin, or if you have a bargrill helmet, to the face, is death.

Short swords do no cutting damage.

You can strike from behind unlike other SCA combat.

No rules on how many attackers at a time unlike SCA combat.

All must have a 14th century style kit.

[Sir James A]

Sorry I did not see the earlier question about the rules.

The CotT rules are this:

3 solid strikes in a row from a mass weapon, long sword, or polearm to the head you are captured.

Armor is as worn, maille on legs and arms are counted as protection, none is no protection. A thrust to an open area like the under arms, back of the leg, groin, or if you have a bargrill helmet, to the face, is death.

Short swords do no cutting damage.

You can strike from behind unlike other SCA combat.

No rules on how many attackers at a time unlike SCA combat.

All must have a 14th century style kit.

Those rules sound pretty good. My SCA time was short because I refused the "genericelt" plastic armor with minimal steel, and would only wear "full plate". I was never competitive because my armor weighed a good 60ish pounds (give or take), but I was a great moving pell.

Actual armor counting as actual armor? Huzzah for that!

[Thorsteinn]

Those rules sound pretty good. My SCA time was short because I refused the "genericelt" plastic armor with minimal steel, and would only wear "full plate". I was never competitive because my armor weighed a good 60ish pounds (give or take), but I was a great moving pell.

Actual armor counting as actual armor? Huzzah for that!

Sorry, I must speak for my people. 60 lbs and you were not competitive? Where do you live? 

My kit is north of 45lbs and will be getting heavier and I finish well in both the Crown and Coronet tourney's.

I can definitely get you in touch with some very good teachers no matter where you are who could help you if you wished to kick much butt in full plate.

See full plate is like the light side of the force. The road is longer but the rewards are greater. Plasti-generi-celt is the Dark Side:

"Is the dark side stronger?"
"No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive. But once you start down it's dark path forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will!"

Trust me and trust Duke Sir James Greyhelm, 7 time King of the West, who made armour for 20 yrs, has fought for over 30 years and in full plate for almost all of it. His old squire is Duke Sir Jake of Starfall, 16 time King of the West, and his gran-squire is Duke Sir Uther Schiemann Der Hunt, 9 time King of the West and 1 time King of An-Tir.

While Jade & Uther are big boy's. James is 5' 7" and about 140lbs.

-Ivan
Heavy fighter of 12 years, Marshal for 18, and Constable of the Silver Desert.

[James Barker]

Out here in Atlantia the typical kit is helmet, leather arm guards, plastic body, thigh armor mostly quilted or plastic. Kits are light and the super dukes typically lose the body and thigh armor and go minimum for Crown. I don't know of a single top end fighter in all plate.

[Sir William]

I think rebated steel would ruin the actual appeal of it, that it's full-contact & full force. I've done demos with rebated steel, and one really has to keep on their toes, even with pulled blows.

I want to try SCA sometime. I like the aspect of fighting with hundreds or thousands on a field at once, and it sounds like a real ball of fun.

That is sort of my point; when fighting w/steel in steel, you don't want casual fighters- you have to be able to trust your adversary not to kill you, and likewise.  The SCA is perfect for the casual types, actually, it seems to be a fit across the board, with all others having one thing or another that does not appeal, but overall seem to be getting along well enough.  Ok, there's some internecine bickering but that's to be expected when you have such a large membership from all walks of life like they do.

[Ian]

I just can't get passed the 'armor doesn't protect you' aspect.  That's why the top-fighters wear minimum kingdom requirements, because you put yourself at a distinct disadvantage by wearing a nice and historically accurate kit.  It feels too much like a sport that evolved to serve its own purpose instead of being about the historical personas they're trying to represent.  Being at a disadvantage because you're wearing nice and historically correct armor blows my mind.

That's why I love to see things like CotT.  The kits look awesome, the armor you're wearing protects the body part it's well... protecting.  I get the whole plastic armor gets you on the field mentality, but it should be something to aspire to move on from.  Like I said earlier, if CotT was the standard I'd be all over the SCA.

[Thorsteinn]

Regarding the armour not working thing. I have seen folks bitch that someone was not taking their shots. The supposed rhino was wearing a maille hauberk over good gambeseon, leather legs & arms, and an aventail.

The maille wearer was asked and he said that the blows didn't get through well enough to count.

What I mean to say is that this guy couldn't get through the assumed standard. Had the guy not been wearing maille it would have been a different calibration for sure.

[Sir James A]

Those rules sound pretty good. My SCA time was short because I refused the "genericelt" plastic armor with minimal steel, and would only wear "full plate". I was never competitive because my armor weighed a good 60ish pounds (give or take), but I was a great moving pell.

Actual armor counting as actual armor? Huzzah for that!

Sorry, I must speak for my people. 60 lbs and you were not competitive? Where do you live? 

My kit is north of 45lbs and will be getting heavier and I finish well in both the Crown and Coronet tourney's.

I can definitely get you in touch with some very good teachers no matter where you are who could help you if you wished to kick much butt in full plate.

See full plate is like the light side of the force. The road is longer but the rewards are greater. Plasti-generi-celt is the Dark Side:

"Is the dark side stronger?"
"No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive. But once you start down it's dark path forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will!"

Trust me and trust Duke Sir James Greyhelm, 7 time King of the West, who made armour for 20 yrs, has fought for over 30 years and in full plate for almost all of it. His old squire is Duke Sir Jake of Starfall, 16 time King of the West, and his gran-squire is Duke Sir Uther Schiemann Der Hunt, 9 time King of the West and 1 time King of An-Tir.

While Jade & Uther are big boy's. James is 5' 7" and about 140lbs.

-Ivan
Heavy fighter of 12 years, Marshal for 18, and Constable of the Silver Desert.

Out here in Atlantia the typical kit is helmet, leather arm guards, plastic body, thigh armor mostly quilted or plastic. Kits are light and the super dukes typically lose the body and thigh armor and go minimum for Crown. I don't know of a single top end fighter in all plate.

James Barker covered it spot on. It was about a decade ago and Atlantia (northern virginia), just local fighter practice. The only other person with a good bit of actual plate armor was the host, who had a fantastic cavalier kit - along with 20+ years of experience armoring and fighting, plus a motto of "old age and treachery will beat youth and enthusiasm every time". But I never saw a set of greaves (besides my cased greaves), and I don't even recall even seeing spaulders or rerebraces (again, besides my own).

The biggest hurdle for me is that I'm a fat computer programmer with previous separate injuries to both of my knees & my back/hips (hospital trip strapped to a backboard on that one....), as well as being stuck with a less-than-average cardiac & respiratory system since I was little (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pectus_excavatum) - and breathing and a strong heart are two rather important things for wearing and moving quickly in armor. I'd have to get myself into substantially better shape before I could be much of anything but a slowly moving (but nicely armored!) pell. I do plan to address some needed weight loss this year; I was rather winded after a few unarmored bouts with Sir Nathan a couple months ago.

I'm quite happy to wear and/or admire (ogle/drool over) a nicely done harness, and though I may be a heretic for saying it - the high quality of armor at CotT (or any event) is often more exciting to me than the actual tournament bouts. Competitive or not, the greatest thrill of it for me is enjoying the doing, win or lose, rather than winning at the cost of my enjoyment.