Great helm liners

[Leganoth]

I know I am coming to this thread rather late but I think I have the answer on the liners for you. I do not beleive early great helmets were themselves padded, instead the wearer had a padded coif under the maille, or a padded roll attached to the coif on the outside, a skull cap with padding above or under the maille coif layer, or a small bascinet helmet that was padded under the great helm.

Skull caps are seen in the 12th century straight through the GH era. The bascinet is a 14th century helmet. The padded roll is seen in 12th and 13th century effigies.

If you look here you can see both the small helmet and padded roll options http://www.themcs.org/armour/14th%20century%20armour.htm

If you look at this Maciejowski bible image (1250) you see the point is back the the knight in front has a skull cap under the maille. 



Effigies of early crusaders show the padded roll I mention:

Found this but still not sure if it would fill the helm  http://steel-mastery.com/en/padded-armour/padded-hoods-and-caps/linen/flax-liner-for-great-helm

[Sir Gerard de Rodes]

All of the above are fantastic solutions to your lining or padding problem, and all will work.
The most common and simplest being the leather liner or spider, similar in shape and function to Sir Brians liner although much cruder.

As James has suggested, the great helm would always have been worn over, at least, a maille coif and more often than not a cervellier (secret or small skull cap) as well.

Earlier great helms, and flat topped pot helms, were worn over a mail coif that was fitted over a flat topped arming or padded coif.

I think, if worn under a maille coif, the coif and ring from Steel Mastery, once the ring was adjusted to fit your helm and attached to the coif, would give the right, flat topped effect.

If you intend to use the helm for full contact fighting then I would deffinitely go with fitted, high density, soft foam (such as pipe lagging or refrigeration insulating material) shaped and  fitted in such a way that it feels like a motorcycle helmet when it`s on. To draw the eye away from the modern materials, the foam should be covered with soft linnen or cotton. Thus giving a much more comfortable surface against your face and head.

As with most armour items there will always be a certain amount of tinkering and tailoring to make them work well. You will also find you try a few different solutions before finding the one that is suitable or comfortable for you.

Good luck.
G.

[James Barker]

Found this but still not sure if it would fill the helm  http://steel-mastery.com/en/padded-armour/padded-hoods-and-caps/linen/flax-liner-for-great-helm

From a historical standpoint I have my doubts about this arrangement of a padded hood with the ring on it. If you want to make just the ring you just need fabric and something to stuff it with (I used raw cotton for my hat like this shape). General rule is to add about 10 inches to the ring length so when you stuff it, it still fits your head. So if you have a 24 inch head make a 34 inch long ring; you can always cut it down if it is too big.

[Sir William]

Without that ring on it, it looks like it could be something you'd find in a great helm; I've always been of the mind that one would wear a coif, half helm or bascinet and then the great helm over all of that.

[Sir Brian]

*Bump*


I bumped this for Sir Nathan who asked about my mounting method of my crest(s). Since it also has some other great posts about liners I thought it was worth a revisit to the top of the topic listing. 

[Sir Edward]

Speaking of liners, I picked up a couple of bascinet liners that I might be able to make work with the great-helms. The camp-foam works, but isn't very historical. Something padded with linen will be nicer in the long-run.

[Sir Brian]

Yeah the camp foam isn't very absorbent either! 

[Sir Gerard de Rodes]

There is actually evidence for the ringed arming coif. I will have a look and link it here.
G.

[Sir Gerard de Rodes]

I know I am coming to this thread rather late but I think I have the answer on the liners for you. I do not beleive early great helmets were themselves padded, instead the wearer had a padded coif under the maille, or a padded roll attached to the coif on the outside, a skull cap with padding above or under the maille coif layer, or a small bascinet helmet that was padded under the great helm.

Skull caps are seen in the 12th century straight through the GH era. The bascinet is a 14th century helmet. The padded roll is seen in 12th and 13th century effigies.

If you look here you can see both the small helmet and padded roll options http://www.themcs.org/armour/14th%20century%20armour.htm

If you look at this Maciejowski bible image (1250) you see the point is back the the knight in front has a skull cap under the maille. 



Effigies of early crusaders show the padded roll I mention:

Found this but still not sure if it would fill the helm  http://steel-mastery.com/en/padded-armour/padded-hoods-and-caps/linen/flax-liner-for-great-helm

In fact the evidence is in Leganoths link.They are wearing ring topped coifs the would give the appearance of a flat topped coif when worn under a maile coif.This would have given perfect ( as far as medieval people where concerned) protection under a pot helm or early great helm.
G.

[Sir Brian]

Sir Nathan:
These attached edited pictures with the red arrows show the Jack Nuts that I inserted into the base of the crest mount. I ensured to epoxy the 1/4 X 20 sized Jack Nut since it didn't completely penetrate the mount. You don't have to use a Jack Nut and can epoxy really any type of nut you want into the mount although I would avoid those Brazilian nuts as they are just 'odd' looking! 

The mount is secured to the helm by two 1/4 X 20 bolts coming through the top of the helm into the Jack Nuts in the mount.


Here is a video as well on how Jack Nut tools work.

[Sir Wolf]

nice

[Sir James A]

Well those jack nuts are just cool! Might be time I get off my tail and finish up my mantle/crest/torse... thanks for the motivation!

[Sir Ulrich]

Speaking of great helm liners does anyone have suggestions on how to line a topfhelm? I mean mine does have that but I want to remove the liner and put something in so when I fight the helm doesnt move around and block my vision. I didnt have this problem with my old coif and arming cap but I DO with my new coif and arming coif. Guess it's cause it's thinner and not as tight on me.

[Sir James A]

Guess it's cause it's thinner and not as tight on me.

There's your answer. Add some more padding to tighten the fitment. It's harder to get a snug fit since it's a "half helmet" of sorts.

[Sir Ulrich]

I think I am going to get a thicker arming cap, as the padded coif I got isnt as thick as my other arming cap. I dont want to wear that foam cap though, I would rather have a period linen one. Just need one that will cover my forehead as well because that would add the padding I need in the front. Arming cap would be cheaper than a coif anyway, anyone know where to get any good ones?