"Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one."
                -- Marcus Aurelius

Author Topic: Putting together a kit - completed  (Read 12275 times)

Sir William

  • Cogito ergo sum
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,154
Putting together a kit - completed
« on: 2010-09-22, 18:47:42 »
There's no real reason for this topic other than I've noticed its gotten kind of quiet of late so I thought I'd toss this one into the arena, see what it'll do.  So, I know for myself, when I first got the itch to put a kit, some kind of kit, together, I had no idea what it would entail.  So I did like most, and shopped for budget mail (I won't call it 'chain' any longer, unless its jack chains we're talkin about- it does sound odd when you hear someone else say it) and of course, went through several iterations of that type before I started actually doing some research into the time period (initially, it was the Crusades, hard guess, no?  lol), customs, tactics, dress and armor.  And I was so happy, the second time I went to MDRF (first time I went in street clothes not having an idea of what was to come- soon as we arrived I wanted to leave and come back sometime later, having had nothing to wear, sadly, sadly), my debut, as it were...a 16ga sleeveless butted mail shirt (think steel dress and you're on) with a black cross blazoned across the front (think the links were painted) and...wait for it....wait for it...wait for it...

long black Dracula-style cape of the cheapest sort (impulse buy on eBay, but one of many).  Looking back, I realize I saved NO pictures from that day...and with good reason, it was cheesy man, cheesy.  Anyhow, the bug had already bitten me, and I wasn't yet up to speed on riveted mail (or the many kinds there are) so, after having viewed some of the other playtrons at MDRF, my wife and I realized I had a long way to go.  I went back to my 'armorer' and told him I needed sleeves, and splits in the front and back at the least.  He came through for me too, a butted hauberk with superlong, flappy sleeves and it hung to my kneecaps.  Great!  Then I remembered KoH and knew that was the persona for me, not Balian, but a Crusader, and what did I see in the Museum Replicas catalog?  You guessed it, and I was all over it.

Hmm...this is getting long, and sort of outside what I wanted to say, so we'll just fast forward through the rest of that journey and get to the point- I realize now that there is a LOT involved w/putting a decent kit together.  All the big stuff, hell, that's easy...its when you get down to the under garments, footwear, handwear, what you eat with, what you drink with, where do you store your money, how will you tie down all that stuff, what weapons should you carry, and other assorted accoutrements...I don't bother tallying up the price anymore just to see what I've spent, it depresses me to know that so much can be put into it and still be wanting more.

If I'd went for a strictly 12th C getup,I guess you could say I'm good...but when has that one thing ever been enough?  Plus, I'm not a fan of the footwear.  LOL  So I went with boots...boots.  I priced some 'authentically made' cavalier boots, and I realize these wouldn't have come about til late 14th early 15th so then I was toying with the idea of cobbling together a 14th C kit just for the boots.  FOR THE DAMN BOOTS.  And they started at $300 and soared upwards of $450 for one vendor who had all these little add-ons you could have (lugged soles, lugged vibram, natural leather, yada yada yada)...I kept coming back to the boots. 

Then, when I went looking for a kostrel, I could not find one single solitary leather bag/bottle of the size I wanted for less than $150.  I got a leather covered canteen from a dude ranch out west, $30, works great, carried it at the last MDRF and it was great...still...want that kostrel.

Then there's the belts, bags and sundry items that you have to drag around w/you, and did I mention finding a decent shieldmaker who could make one for a left-handed fighter, but didn't have that ugly hard material around the edges like they use in the SCA?  Or who could paint a device decently enough so as not to be an embarrassment on the field?  Nothing says shame better than telling someone your device is three stooping hawks and what you have on your shield is more like three fat owls takin a dump.

Of course, as you get more contemporary, the armor gets beefed up and so does the cost...thank God for Allan and Merc's Tailor; to think what I might've ended up with if not for him.  Well, there's all sorts of decent armorers but I think Allan just might be the most friendly to your bank acct, shameless plug for him there.  Anyhow...there's always something else I think of...like a decent mug.  I have a pewter one with a clear bottom and it just doesn't seem big enough to me.  Always something...

I think this passion of mine might one day drive me crazy...but I'll look good while I'm at it.  ;)

What about you guys?
The Black Knight, Order of the Marshal
'Per Pale Azure and Sable, a Chevron counterchanged fimbriated argent.' 
“Pride makes a man, it drives him, it is the shield wall around his reputation.  Men die, but reputation does not.â€

Sir Edward

  • Forum Admin
  • Commander of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,340
  • Verum et Honorem.
    • ed.toton.org
Re: Putting together a kit - completed
« Reply #1 on: 2010-09-23, 01:01:04 »

Yep, I think everyone's personal histories could be pretty similar. We all start somewhere, and it's usually embarrassing to look back on those early choices. When I started putting together a crusades era kit, I was working on a shoestring budget. I started with a 14ga butted galvanized steel hauberk and an inexpensive great helm from Design Toscano, of all places. My first attempt at a surcoat didn't fit or hang properly, so I quickly made two more: one out of a green wool blend, and another out of white muslin.

Unlike you, however, I still have pictures:


(I'm on the right, in blue)


(on the right, in white)


(on the right, in green)

Those photos are all from 1999, and the knight in black is our own Sir Wolf. :) Man, those hauberks were heavy. Too heavy, really, and not tailored properly in the shoulders and sleeves at all, so it would put most of the weight right on sharp points on the muscles of the shoulder.

For whatever reason, I never bothered to upgrade the kit much beyond just completing out my aluminum set to replace the steel. I would work on it off and on, and it really wasn't done until last year.... so about 10 years to get it finished out to the right length, though it was wearable since 2000. That all changed in 2007 when I bought a new helm, switched to the new blue/white linen surcoat, and started adding from there.

If you scroll down to September in the following link, you can see photos from when I got the new look started, and met Sir Brian for the first time:  http://ed.toton.org/cgi-bin/gallery.pl?y=2007&g=faire
Sir Ed T. Toton III
Knight Commander, Order of the Marshal

( Personal Site | My Facebook )

Sir Wolf

  • He Who is Not to be Named
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,389
  • i have too many hats
    • man e faces
Re: Putting together a kit - completed
« Reply #2 on: 2010-09-23, 10:47:34 »
ya as you can see: my first knights kit:

 14 guage 3/8 in butted ring coif and hauberk
 long black leather belt
 black cotton ren shirt
 black jeans
 black cotton surcoat
 black leather bracers
 black east coast german officers jack boots.

now i can't keep my kits straight. ehhheehe i should get a picture in my new hauberk and surcoat. maybe when we make it to faire in oct?

Sir William

  • Cogito ergo sum
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,154
Re: Putting together a kit - completed
« Reply #3 on: 2010-09-23, 14:54:30 »
What great pics, Sir Edward- that blue/black surcoat you have in the 2007 pics, that wouldn't be a House Morningstar product, would it?  Just wondering...I have one very similar that I did get from HM; haven't worn it in years.  Looks better on you I think.

Sir Wolf...you must have an entire room dedicated to all your kits and assorted accoutrements...I'm envious I am.
The Black Knight, Order of the Marshal
'Per Pale Azure and Sable, a Chevron counterchanged fimbriated argent.' 
“Pride makes a man, it drives him, it is the shield wall around his reputation.  Men die, but reputation does not.â€

Sir Edward

  • Forum Admin
  • Commander of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,340
  • Verum et Honorem.
    • ed.toton.org
Re: Putting together a kit - completed
« Reply #4 on: 2010-09-23, 17:24:34 »

Nope, actually it was my first attempt at sewing one. I used a smooth fabric to make a liner, and a sort of sweat-shirt material for the outer layer. I didn't like how it moved or hung, and the shoulders were way too wide. Once I got a better shape working with the other two, I've used those as the template for every surcoat I've made since. And I don't line them anymore. :)
Sir Ed T. Toton III
Knight Commander, Order of the Marshal

( Personal Site | My Facebook )

Sir Brian

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 4,735
  • Felix uxor beatam vitam - Happy Wife Happy Life
    • Order of the Marshal
Re: Putting together a kit - completed
« Reply #5 on: 2010-09-23, 17:36:25 »
Ah where to begin? – I know! How about the beginning? :D

The pictures of Sir Edward and I which he linked to was in fact the day I debuted my kit. It was also approximately the first year anniversary for my wife and me attending a renaissance faire for the very first time. – We got the renfaire bug really bad the previous 2006 year of the faire.

It was after the 2006 MDRF had ended that I started knocking around ideas about wearing armor. I had purchased my butted brass plated hauberk around Thanksgiving of 2006 and in late January of 2007 I had commissioned a local seamstress to make my original surcoat.

From January ’07 until around March ’07 I had purchased and painted my shield and found a helm I liked (the one I now wear with my Teutonic knight kit). By the spring of ’07 I was nearly ready to start wearing my kit but still needed some decent legs. During the spring and summer of 2007 my wife and I began visiting other renfaires from Florida to Ohio and the whole time I was checking out all the available armor vendors and accumulating all the minute but important detail items – The right colored ostrich feather plumes, white belt, spurs, etc. At the GLMF in Ohio in July ’07 I finally settled for my first set of leather cuisse and poleyns that I liked and at which point I felt my kit was ready for the public.

As the 2007 faire season came to a close and since I got such a great response at MDRF and PARF that year, my wife and I decided to check out CRF and met my friends John and Ritchie who is typically on cast there.
Both of these fine knights were a great inspiration and source of information for me and I realized that I needed a lot more work on my kit.
During the winter of 2007/2008 I worked on revamping my kit and narrowing down the timeline of my harness. Since I greatly admired Sir Edwards great helm I decided to purchase my own and look into dressing it up with the whole crest, mantle and torse in addition to adding some plate pieces. The start of the 2008 renfaire season I debuted my improved kit at the NCRF and that is when my wife and I was truly blessed to meet Sir Andrew and his Lady Constance for the very first time.
 


The fantastic response to my improved kit during 2008 season at GARF, VARF, GLMF, PARF, MDRF and CRF was simply amazing for which I am most appreciative, however my kit was nearly developed as far as it could go. I did add the splinted cuisses for the 2009 season which seemed to be the perfect finishing touch to that version of my harness and where it stands to this day.

At the end of this season I hope to debut portions of my improved kit at CRF.
 ;)
"Chivalry our Strength, Brotherhood our sword"
Vert, on a Chief wavy Argent a Rose Sable,
a Gryphon Segreant Or

[img width=100 height=100]
<a href="http://s221.photobucket.com/user/Tah908/media/LP_Medals_zpsq7zzdvve.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i221.photobucket.

Sir William

  • Cogito ergo sum
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,154
Re: Putting together a kit - completed
« Reply #6 on: 2010-09-23, 20:21:06 »
What a journey, eh?  Seems we've all had ours in pretty much the same way- trial by error, fire, etc.  By the by, Sir Brian, your friend in the black harness looks TOTALLY FREAKIN AWESOME!!!  What a nice blend of fantasy and historicity- I guess the helm is what's gotten me, vicious!  Thanks for sharing guys; I'm glad that I'm not the only one who's bitten by this bug or has made what can sometimes be an arduous trek- especially when you want something and can't have it right yet because of issues relating to funding.  Nicer way to say I'm broke at those times but hey, it is what it is, right?
The Black Knight, Order of the Marshal
'Per Pale Azure and Sable, a Chevron counterchanged fimbriated argent.' 
“Pride makes a man, it drives him, it is the shield wall around his reputation.  Men die, but reputation does not.â€

Sir Brian

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 4,735
  • Felix uxor beatam vitam - Happy Wife Happy Life
    • Order of the Marshal
Re: Putting together a kit - completed
« Reply #7 on: 2010-09-23, 20:31:06 »
Ah yes John’s armor…I hope you are sitting down for this next revelation good sir because John MADE all of his armor including that helm which I believe he sold for $1500.00 later that year (spot me here on this if you please Sir Andrew ;) )

He made a dragon helm about two years ago that is even better! :D
"Chivalry our Strength, Brotherhood our sword"
Vert, on a Chief wavy Argent a Rose Sable,
a Gryphon Segreant Or

[img width=100 height=100]
<a href="http://s221.photobucket.com/user/Tah908/media/LP_Medals_zpsq7zzdvve.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i221.photobucket.

Sir William

  • Cogito ergo sum
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,154
Re: Putting together a kit - completed
« Reply #8 on: 2010-09-23, 20:37:05 »
Holy Expletive Batman!!!  There's no real expression I could use that would be appropriate in terms of sheer admiration so I'll just say that guy rocks like there's no tomorrow.  Does he have a website?  That harness would definitely be killer...on me.  I'd be the Black Knight for real!  ;)
The Black Knight, Order of the Marshal
'Per Pale Azure and Sable, a Chevron counterchanged fimbriated argent.' 
“Pride makes a man, it drives him, it is the shield wall around his reputation.  Men die, but reputation does not.â€

Sir Wolf

  • He Who is Not to be Named
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,389
  • i have too many hats
    • man e faces
Re: Putting together a kit - completed
« Reply #9 on: 2010-09-23, 21:18:35 »
i wish! most of my stuff is in tubs or on bookshelves in the backs of closets. i have 3 small children (wow i can officially say 3 now) so any and all room goto them. but my next house will have a daddy only room. i have one now but its my shop and thats the only thing thats off limits hehehe

Sir Ulrich

  • Squire of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,177
Re: Putting together a kit - completed
« Reply #10 on: 2010-09-23, 21:42:58 »
My first kit I got was when I was 16. Looks like some celtic warrior kit which really doesn't suit me much:

Second kit is a little better but still not really anything "historical":

Later I modified it merging my 2 other kits to some "nordic" look:

Then in 2009 I ended up acquiring a kettle helm which was my first piece of metal armor, look like a conscripted medieval militiaman with this kit:

In may 2010 I bought myself a padded coif along with a crusader tabard:


Later I bought myself new everything including a gambeson imported from Denmark and a crusader shield along with a padded coif, once I get my mail this outfit will look awesome:

Sir Wolf

  • He Who is Not to be Named
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,389
  • i have too many hats
    • man e faces
Re: Putting together a kit - completed
« Reply #11 on: 2010-09-23, 22:47:13 »
dude cool.

btw i havent seen that much red hair since watching Red Sonja ahhaha jkjk.

great kits all around. would be honored to faire with all of u

Sir Brian

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 4,735
  • Felix uxor beatam vitam - Happy Wife Happy Life
    • Order of the Marshal
Re: Putting together a kit - completed
« Reply #12 on: 2010-09-24, 16:37:14 »
Excellent kits Conall! Where was that May 2010 event at? – I recognize the guy in the dark fantasy armor (although I cannot remember his name) and I know the cardinal and other templar from PARF.  :)
"Chivalry our Strength, Brotherhood our sword"
Vert, on a Chief wavy Argent a Rose Sable,
a Gryphon Segreant Or

[img width=100 height=100]
<a href="http://s221.photobucket.com/user/Tah908/media/LP_Medals_zpsq7zzdvve.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i221.photobucket.

Sir Wolf

  • He Who is Not to be Named
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,389
  • i have too many hats
    • man e faces
Re: Putting together a kit - completed
« Reply #13 on: 2010-09-24, 16:42:39 »
ya what other events do you go too?

Sir Ulrich

  • Squire of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,177
Re: Putting together a kit - completed
« Reply #14 on: 2010-09-25, 07:43:54 »
Excellent kits Conall! Where was that May 2010 event at? – I recognize the guy in the dark fantasy armor (although I cannot remember his name) and I know the cardinal and other templar from PARF.  :)

Thanks I always try my best for my garb.
You know those people too? Heh small world.. I sure would like to see them again they were kind and had nice garbs. That was at the Mercer County Park annual renaissance faire in New Jersey.

Currently I may go to the PA one and I been at the NY one this year as well. Just wish I could go to more... Thats the problem with not being able to drive....
« Last Edit: 2010-09-25, 07:48:20 by Conall »