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Author Topic: American Medievalist Association  (Read 14309 times)

Sir Edward

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American Medievalist Association
« on: 2010-09-02, 17:37:57 »

I can't remember who pointed out this link or where (was it you, Sir Wolf?), but I finally got around to looking at it. I had the page open in a web browser for a couple of months, I think. :)

http://americanmedievalist.tripod.com/knighthood.htm

I don't think they've updated the website in quite some time. But it's an interesting concept they've put together. It's similar to the SCA in that the members portray a persona, but they've centered the rules around that in terms of "reality" and "authenticity". Meaning, if you want to be a specific type of character, you need to have the trappings appropriate to that. So before being knighted, for example, one must first have functional armor, weapons, and tableware.

It's not a bad idea. Heck, back in the day, those were some of the primary requirements anyway (plus a horse!) :)
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Sir Wolf

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Re: American Medievalist Association
« Reply #1 on: 2010-09-02, 19:57:39 »
ya i think it was me, although i dont remember what it said

Sir William

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Re: American Medievalist Association
« Reply #2 on: 2010-09-13, 17:11:13 »
I remember being very excited to join the SCA but in talking with some of the members of the local Storvik barony, I was kind of put off by the snobbishness exhibited by a few.  Basically, I was told that if I didn't want to play by their rules, I didn't have to play at all, or something like that.  It was uncalled for as I'd only asked a simple enough question regarding one of their policies.  Anyway, so I never joined; this might be right up my alley.  Thanks for sharing.
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Sir Edward

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Re: American Medievalist Association
« Reply #3 on: 2010-09-13, 19:14:35 »
Yeah, the SCA can be a mixed bag. People come into it from a variety of different angles and different areas of interest. Some are closer to "living history", others are more casual. So you'll find people that don't care what you do, and will just enjoy having your participation. Others are very strict and will look down at you if you don't live up to their standards. It's like a microcosm of a society, with a broad spectrum of personalities.

When it comes to their combat system and knighthood, they have a very long and established history and way of doing things. Everyone has to play by their rules, since its the consistency that keeps the game safe. However, there are fighters in the SCA who keep pushing for change, because the combat culture has evolved into a "power = good" sort of mentality. I remember reading one account where a knight stopped fighting altogether after his opponent kept ignoring hits, until he finally hit the guy hard enough to knock him out.

While I'm a card-carrying member of the SCA, I only joined to get access to the newsletters, register my heraldry, and get my discount for attending Pennsic. While I'd love to take part in a larger organization like that, the combat system isn't as appealing to me, for the reasons I mentioned above. I prefer the HEMA/WMA community I've been participating in, learning historical weapon techniques in the context of a martial art.

To me, if I joined the SCA "heavy" fighters, I'd probably go in with the goal of being knighted, which would almost certainly not happen. In some ways it's more a popularity contest than anything else, since they base it on renown as much as prowess, and the decisions are made by the ruling king with recommendations from the existing knights (and the kings are chosen by right of combat too). Atlantia (our kingdom for this area) is notorious for turning out very few knights, if I remember correctly. The ones who tend to get knighted are those who don't have an outside life, and can devote 40 hours a week to the game. While chivalry factors in, it's not always at the forefront. And those who do get knighted usually take a good 10 years to get there. By then, many of them burn out and disappear from the combat scene after a while.

So personally, I'd rather take part in an Order or other small organization that's more focused on combat and chivalry specifically, with a clear path for advancement and/or membership, than be told that I can't portray a knight or wear a white belt because I'm not willing to knock people unconscious right through their helmet. :)



« Last Edit: 2010-09-13, 19:17:30 by Sir Edward »
Sir Ed T. Toton III
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Sir Wolf

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Re: American Medievalist Association
« Reply #4 on: 2010-09-13, 20:42:26 »
i think we need to get together for a big dinner party hehehe

Sir Brian

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Re: American Medievalist Association
« Reply #5 on: 2010-09-13, 22:25:34 »
We could always do Medieval times wearing armor!  :D
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Re: American Medievalist Association
« Reply #6 on: 2010-09-13, 23:26:12 »
I discovered the best way to "get back" at the fighter ignoring your well-placed blows was to tell them you yield the field this day since you obviously cannot vanquish them. It meant you lost a bout or maybe even a tourney, but when you have all the pointy hats sitting around witnessing said fact, it stands for itself....

Sir William

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Re: American Medievalist Association
« Reply #7 on: 2010-09-14, 14:20:43 »
We could always do Medieval times wearing armor!  :D

My man, you let me know if you do that because I'll join you!  I've flirted with the idea of doing it...even imagined them letting me up on a horse to joust with them.  Does anyone here ride?  I miss it.

Thanks for the rundown, Sir Edward...what you've said mirrors what I'd heard in the past and I know some people who truly love it.  When it comes to playing the role, I'm more of a casual one...I take knighthood seriously but I can't devote but so much time to it; for me its more of a state of mind.  I sometimes tell myself that I was probably born a few centuries too late but then I think of running water, indoor plumbing, electricity....see, I could do w/out a/c or elaborate homes and cars even, but that indoor plumbing is what really sets us apart from the old days, don't you think? 

Yet and still...it'd be cool if there were such a place, like a living history exhibit, where you could armor up, take up a sword, enter a joust if you wanted to.  Yea, there's some danger involved- but I've always found that anything really worth doing is going to involve danger of some sort...even if its dinner with the in-laws.  ;)
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Sir Edward

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Re: American Medievalist Association
« Reply #8 on: 2010-09-14, 15:26:04 »

Oh, I very much agree. Running water and indoor plumbing, antibiotics, and antihistamines! :) Modern medicine, rights and freedoms... there is much in modern society that I would not want to give up. That's why I look at our historical interests as a way to revive them in the modern day, so we can have our cake and eat it too. :)

As for going to Medieval Times in armor, I think that would be a blast. I heard somewhere that they either frown on people showing up in garb, or at least want a head's up in advance. I'm not sure what their policy is. But just from the standpoint of liability and insurance, they certainly won't let patrons anywhere near their horses and equipment.

But that does bring up the idea of tournaments that folks such as ourselves could attend and participate in. A few other forums (most notably swordform) are currently undergoing huge arguments about such tournaments, whether they have any value, how they could be fair to different types of training and background, rule systems, whether it dilutes martial training or whether martial training makes you dangerous in sparring, etc, etc. I'm curious to see what they come up with. But at least it is being discussed.

I do miss riding. I used to take lessons and go riding when I was a teen. I've only been on a horse a couple of times since then.

Once again, the things I'd do if I won the lottery... build a castle, keep horses, hire someone full time to care for the animals... :)
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Sir William

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Re: American Medievalist Association
« Reply #9 on: 2010-09-15, 17:06:40 »
So it is being discussed...that's good; obviously being horseless I'd be fighting on foot but I still think it'd be cool if we could stage a mock battle of some sort...and here's where it'll get bogged down because you'd have to be pretty armored up to participate if the media being used are blunt steel swords...w/out that though, its just another LARP get together (which are fun too, don't get me wrong).

I imagine there'd be some injuries sustained but that's a risk I'd be willing to take for my part.  I never thought of a tournament as something that'd dilute martial training- I mean, these things used to be relatively brutal affairs until it became somewhat civilized and they started jousting one on one.  I bet during the melee days, it was chaos on the field and probably a lot more entertaining (and dangerous).
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Sir Edward

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Re: American Medievalist Association
« Reply #10 on: 2010-09-15, 17:28:02 »

Right, the type of tournament they're discussing would be competitions using historical weapon techniques on foot. Very few people have access to horses, and there's little documentation out there about mounted combat techniques. The HEMA/WMA community has a lot of different approaches to their studies, which I think leads to a certain amount of disagreement about scoring and safety.

Granted, injuries occur, but can be minimized with clean and controlled techniques and proper equipment. We've done some bouts with steel where we can go at a pretty good speed and mostly be safe, with gambesons, helmets, and gauntlets.

A larger scale melee could be fun, but I don't think there's a good way to score it if you get past a certain number of participants. We've done some 3-vs-3 fights with shinai, and those are certainly fun.

I think the argument about diluting the martial training is along the lines of having people practice to fight within the confines of the tournament rules, at the expense of learning the deadlier portions of the art.
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Sir Wolf

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Re: American Medievalist Association
« Reply #11 on: 2010-09-15, 18:59:17 »
hehe ya DIE DIE DIE oops i mean YIELD YIELD YIELD

Sir William

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Re: American Medievalist Association
« Reply #12 on: 2010-09-16, 15:55:10 »

Right, the type of tournament they're discussing would be competitions using historical weapon techniques on foot. Very few people have access to horses, and there's little documentation out there about mounted combat techniques. The HEMA/WMA community has a lot of different approaches to their studies, which I think leads to a certain amount of disagreement about scoring and safety.

Granted, injuries occur, but can be minimized with clean and controlled techniques and proper equipment. We've done some bouts with steel where we can go at a pretty good speed and mostly be safe, with gambesons, helmets, and gauntlets.

A larger scale melee could be fun, but I don't think there's a good way to score it if you get past a certain number of participants. We've done some 3-vs-3 fights with shinai, and those are certainly fun.

I think the argument about diluting the martial training is along the lines of having people practice to fight within the confines of the tournament rules, at the expense of learning the deadlier portions of the art.

Well, we could do it like they used to in the olden days, take the losers and make them ransom themselves back into the fray?  Maybe everyone could bring some prearranged item that would function as their ransom should they be taken on the field; it need not be elaborate, just as a means of furthering the adventure, so to speak.

Man, ideas are flitting about in the darker reaches of my mind...imagine training as a group until we were like a well oiled machine, taking ransoms all over the field!  I should never have read Chadwick's The Greatest Knight, lol.
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Sir Edward

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Re: American Medievalist Association
« Reply #13 on: 2010-09-16, 18:44:15 »

Poker chips instead of gold coins? :)
Sir Ed T. Toton III
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Re: American Medievalist Association
« Reply #14 on: 2010-09-17, 12:35:11 »
belt favors that get stolen like flag football ;)

Sir Edward, sounds like a "knighthood" order is needed much the way we used to do things in UEMA etc. hehehe just get together, camp and hang out