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Five greatest Arthurian Knights?

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Sir Matthew:
I'm going to have to look for at least one of those two, Sir Edward.  I have read several versions of the Robin Hood myths and even attempted to wade through The Illiad, but I have read only bits and pieces of the Aurthurian legends.  I really need to make a concerted effort to fill in the literary gaps I have.

Sir Edward:

--- Quote from: Sir Edward on 2010-07-29, 03:20:16 ---The Complete Romances of Chrétien de Troyes: http://amzn.com/0253207878

--- End quote ---

I've started reading the introduction on this one (yeah, it'll take me ages to read the whole book, since I'm just slow that way). It has some interesting background. Chretien's is one of the more influential of the earlier works, the first of the "romances". It originates the story of Lancelot's involvement with Guinevere, which gets further solidified by Malory a few centuries later, where it became entrenched in every retelling since. He also was the one that first developed the stories around the knights, rather than making the stories centered on Arthur himself, and also first to associate it with a grail story, though it's not clear in his story whether it's meant to be the grail or just a grail (with the term applying to large serving bowls). Interesting.

Sir Edward:
Oh, I just have to share this. The second paragraph of Chretien's first romance, "Erec And Enide", is quite amusing. Very sure of himself, and not too fond of his colleagues, apparently. :)

"This is the tale of Erec, son of Lac, which those who wish to make their living by storytelling in the presence of counts and kings usually mutilate and spoil. Now I am going to begin the story that henceforth will be remembered so long as Christianity endures. This is Chretien's boast."

Hah!

Sir Edward:
I'm about a third of the way through Chretien's first romance, "Erec and Enide". Speaking to the original question of who was the greatest knight, I'd say it changed from story to story. In this particular romance, Chretien ranks them within the story, putting Gawain first, Erec second, and Lancelot third. Of course, during the story, Erec goes back to his own kingdom and becomes king, and does not remain as one of Arthur's knights.

The story doesn't follow the normal "beginning, middle/climax, end" sequence of modern stories. What seems to be the main plot, at first, gets wrapped up pretty quickly. Then it goes on with pages and pages of describing the tournaments, celebrations, wedding, and so on that follows it... and I'm only on page 30 out of 86.

But I'm already seeing something very cool, that these stories are well known for. The knightly honor that is portrayed. When Erec defeats another knight, he takes him prisoner by commanding him to go on his own back to queen Guinevere to surrender himself, while Erec stays behind to finish business. Even when in the wrong, the other knight is trusted to do the honorable thing.

It also describes the tournament. Between the story and what I read elsewhere about medieval tournaments, it helps to frame the mindset of the knights of the time. The 12th century tournament wasn't a game or competition in the same sense we'd think today. It was practically a full-blown battle. Knights would divide up into teams on a field. The fighting could last all day, with specific areas set aside for resting safely. But they would joust in large groups, and continue fighting on foot with sword or mace... using their sharp weapons, and mail hauberks and shields (remember, no plate cuirass in 12th century). They tried not to kill each other, but it would still happen of course, and there are accounts of severe wounds, including head injuries that left people incapable of managing their lands anymore. Knights would permanently capture horses from each other, and if they captured the other knight, there would be an actual ransom, which may or may not include their sword and armor. Pretty serious!  :o

This comes up in the context of describing Sir Erec, as he is described in being so perfect in his knightly behavior that he doesn't bother to take horses or ransom from the knights he defeats, and instead focuses on continuing to fight to win.

Das Bill:
Its been years since I've read the Chretien du Troyes romances, but I always recalled in the tale of Perceval that he'd defeated a knight in red armor. I always wondered what that meant in the age of mail. Was the mail painted red? (that seems unlikely, since the paint would just rub off from wearing it) Was the helmet alone painted red, with a red tabard of some kind? Maybe the helmet and shield?

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