Wow, looks like things got pretty nasty and heated on the sugarloaf thread. I wanted to really read up on that, since that is the helm style I was leaning toward for my Tuetonic Knight circa early to mid 1300's. From what I can gleen from that thread, it does look as though I am pretty much correct in using one, but since so much of the thread was taken up with discussing something else it's still a little difficult for me to be sure.