"Chivalry is itself the poetry of life."
      -- Schlegel, Philosophy of History

Author Topic: John Clements is making sword video's for Windlass. You must see.  (Read 3330 times)

Thorsteinn

  • Dodger of Suicidal Bostonians
  • Squire of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,446
  • Never give up, never surrender.
In no particular order. I make my apologies now. I would have put it in the Courtyard but for the video's lending themselves to this section.

Battlecry by Windlass - Testing the Hattin Falchion Sword


...Testing the Maldon Viking Sword and Maldon Seax


...Testing the Bosworth Long Sword
« Last Edit: 2016-04-01, 22:43:21 by Thorsteinn »
When the World shout's "Give Up!", Hope whispers "Try one more time."

Thorsteinn

  • Dodger of Suicidal Bostonians
  • Squire of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,446
  • Never give up, never surrender.
And it continues.

...Testing the Agincourt War Sword


...Testing the Acre Sword



Remember all this is the same guy that, on film, screwed up a show fight and concussed a guy in a helm as the man was not expecting to be hit with a mordhau (his partners fault a bit, mistakes happen) and his helm was not well padded. The only thing I can say is that at least he rolled with it.


« Last Edit: 2016-04-02, 01:19:31 by Thorsteinn »
When the World shout's "Give Up!", Hope whispers "Try one more time."

Sir William

  • Cogito ergo sum
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,154
The Battlecry series at Windlass reminds me a lot of the Cold Steel line of swords with the all-black blades and furniture; a lot of what's offered seems identical to current lines, just darkened and renamed.  So this is the John Clements that caused such an uproar a few years back...and I'd made some commentary on the situation without really knowing the player(s).  I don't know the man...but he seems to know his weapons.  I doubt I'll pick one up (unless it happens to cross the Deal of the Day threshold, I confess I get tangled up by one or another of those from time to time lol) but who knows.  Windlass is trying to increase their market share...good on them.

Thorsteinn, you mentioned he committed a faux pas on film...did you mean this one where he caught the guy?  Because I was under the impression that he knew what he was getting into.
« Last Edit: 2016-04-05, 20:19:24 by Sir William »
The Black Knight, Order of the Marshal
'Per Pale Azure and Sable, a Chevron counterchanged fimbriated argent.' 
“Pride makes a man, it drives him, it is the shield wall around his reputation.  Men die, but reputation does not.”

Sir Edward

  • Forum Admin
  • Commander of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,334
  • Verum et Honorem.
    • ed.toton.org

I guess I can't really say I'm surprised that they're teaming up for promotional stuff like that. Pretty typical marketing, I would think. But for those of us who have graduated onto much more expensive toys, it won't really impact us. ;)
Sir Ed T. Toton III
Knight Commander, Order of the Marshal

( Personal Site | My Facebook )

Jon Blair

  • Forum Member
  • **
  • Posts: 70
From what I have seen in these videos, I'm finding it hard to be impressed with the Battlecry lineup. Granted, I have not held one in hand, but given Windlass Steelcrafts' track record, I'm not hopeful. Part of the problem is the Rolling Stones' ideal for the appearance of these weapons (I see a Windlass Sword, I want to paint it black). They look straight out of a fantasy series on ABC Family. Sorry, I mean Freeform. Some of these are nicer looking than others; out of all of them the Bosworth is the "prettiest" of a sorry lot, while others are just plain ugly, like the Maldons and the Hattin. It's not the type of weapon that makes it ugly either. I've seen some beautifully made falchions and Viking swords and seaxs, but not in the Battlecry lineup. The Hattin looks more like a machete than a falchion. Of all of them, the Soldier's Buckler looks the most promising, yet they do not have a video of the buckler. In fact, the Hattin video shows Mr. Clements with the Hattin and a buckler, but not the Battlecry Soldier's Buckler. Unfortunately, there only seems to be two rivets securing the boss of the buckler to the rim, leaving me wonder how well it would hold up.

It's not like these are drastically different than their other offerings; in fact, the Acre is their Classic Medieval Sword with a black "paint" job and a decorative (read as poorly executed) wire wrap on the grip. Yet, the Acre is significantly more expensive than the CMS, even with the sharpened blade taken into account. Why? Compared to other swords that they sell, how are these improved? We see John Clements beating the living daylights out of things with them, but how do we know those examples are common across all of their Battlecry products? By that, I mean are his swords "special" for the videos, or is the quality of any particular sword in that line the same? Yes, they talk about how they are inspected based off of an "Industry Standard", but what is that standard? If you compare the custom made swords out of swordsmiths like Peter Johnnson, Lukas Mastle Goer, and Miecze Sredniowieczne, to production swords from Albion, A & A, or Castle Keep, to the wares of Cold Steel, Hanwei, and Windlass, what is the Industry Standard they claim to exceed? How far do they exceed it? How did they make the blades black? I'm guessing chemical bluing of some kind, but depending on the kind leads to how sturdy is the bluing and how easy is it to remove?
« Last Edit: 2016-04-06, 20:36:31 by Jon Blair »
"Diligo bonus quod contemno malum"

Azure, a saltire argent charged nine mascles azure

Thorsteinn

  • Dodger of Suicidal Bostonians
  • Squire of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,446
  • Never give up, never surrender.
Ah! The famed issue that JC caused has been brought back to life on the AA.

Quote
http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?102978-A-challenge-issued-by-John-Clements-ARMA-Director-%96-our-statement

If anyone has way too much time to kill, this will pretty much seal the deal for anyone on the fence regarding John Clements' status as an asshat.

TLDR version:

One of the ARMA (JC's group) heads in Poland resigned because JC was holding them back and being a dick. ARMA is notoriously insular and inbred. JC responds by being an even bigger dick and challenges Eastern Europeans to a public duel while beating his chest and essentially smacktalking about how he's going to put them all in their place and how much of an "expert" he is, etc. etc. Eastern Europeans line up for said duel at the agreed upon time and place. JC never shows.

Mass eye rolling ensues. Whatever reputation JC had left was pretty much broken by this event. I havn't seen him taken seriously by anyone in the community outside ARMA since.

_________________
-Erik
Winter Tree Crafts LLC
When the World shout's "Give Up!", Hope whispers "Try one more time."

Sir William

  • Cogito ergo sum
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,154
From what I have seen in these videos, I'm finding it hard to be impressed with the Battlecry lineup. Granted, I have not held one in hand, but given Windlass Steelcrafts' track record, I'm not hopeful. Part of the problem is the Rolling Stones' ideal for the appearance of these weapons (I see a Windlass Sword, I want to paint it black). They look straight out of a fantasy series on ABC Family. Sorry, I mean Freeform. Some of these are nicer looking than others; out of all of them the Bosworth is the "prettiest" of a sorry lot, while others are just plain ugly, like the Maldons and the Hattin. It's not the type of weapon that makes it ugly either. I've seen some beautifully made falchions and Viking swords and seaxs, but not in the Battlecry lineup. The Hattin looks more like a machete than a falchion. Of all of them, the Soldier's Buckler looks the most promising, yet they do not have a video of the buckler. In fact, the Hattin video shows Mr. Clements with the Hattin and a buckler, but not the Battlecry Soldier's Buckler. Unfortunately, there only seems to be two rivets securing the boss of the buckler to the rim, leaving me wonder how well it would hold up.

It's not like these are drastically different than their other offerings; in fact, the Acre is their Classic Medieval Sword with a black "paint" job and a decorative (read as poorly executed) wire wrap on the grip. Yet, the Acre is significantly more expensive than the CMS, even with the sharpened blade taken into account. Why? Compared to other swords that they sell, how are these improved? We see John Clements beating the living daylights out of things with them, but how do we know those examples are common across all of their Battlecry products? By that, I mean are his swords "special" for the videos, or is the quality of any particular sword in that line the same? Yes, they talk about how they are inspected based off of an "Industry Standard", but what is that standard? If you compare the custom made swords out of swordsmiths like Peter Johnnson, Lukas Mastle Goer, and Miecze Sredniowieczne, to production swords from Albion, A & A, or Castle Keep, to the wares of Cold Steel, Hanwei, and Windlass, what is the Industry Standard they claim to exceed? How far do they exceed it? How did they make the blades black? I'm guessing chemical bluing of some kind, but depending on the kind leads to how sturdy is the bluing and how easy is it to remove?

I'm not surprised, if anything, Windlass is late to that particular game- Cold Steel and United Cutlery have been doing the 'darkened' weapons line for some years now.  I'm not the fan I once was of Windlass products, but I've noted that some of their offerings have improved over the years (and in a lot of cases, their best stuff gets discontinued- crazy); the CMS is a barebones type X but is surprisingly sturdy and not a 'dead' length of unbalanced crapola steel.  The Ulfberht I hear is one of their best, and their Type XIV is a stabby little beastie.  Most of their other stuff is meh so far as I know.  I went ahead and got one of their longer swords just because the reviews stated it wasn't whippy like their usual offerings (Roven?  Can't recall offhand)- they were right in this case, if only because the thick ricasso somewhat stiffens the blade overall.  As for pricing...they're at an 'introductory' level; I guess that means the price will go up if there's significant interest in this latest spate of offerings.  At $245 for the Acre, it isn't a huge jump in price as the CMS retails normally at $225 so a $20 difference isn't a huge deal and can probably be attributed to the labor and materials for the darkening process.  I don't know of any sword at this price point that would have a well executed wire wrap direct from the forge. 
The Black Knight, Order of the Marshal
'Per Pale Azure and Sable, a Chevron counterchanged fimbriated argent.' 
“Pride makes a man, it drives him, it is the shield wall around his reputation.  Men die, but reputation does not.”

Jon Blair

  • Forum Member
  • **
  • Posts: 70
I'm not surprised, if anything, Windlass is late to that particular game- Cold Steel and United Cutlery have been doing the 'darkened' weapons line for some years now.  I'm not the fan I once was of Windlass products, but I've noted that some of their offerings have improved over the years (and in a lot of cases, their best stuff gets discontinued- crazy); the CMS is a barebones type X but is surprisingly sturdy and not a 'dead' length of unbalanced crapola steel.  The Ulfberht I hear is one of their best, and their Type XIV is a stabby little beastie.  Most of their other stuff is meh so far as I know.  I went ahead and got one of their longer swords just because the reviews stated it wasn't whippy like their usual offerings (Roven?  Can't recall offhand)- they were right in this case, if only because the thick ricasso somewhat stiffens the blade overall.  As for pricing...they're at an 'introductory' level; I guess that means the price will go up if there's significant interest in this latest spate of offerings.  At $245 for the Acre, it isn't a huge jump in price as the CMS retails normally at $225 so a $20 difference isn't a huge deal and can probably be attributed to the labor and materials for the darkening process.  I don't know of any sword at this price point that would have a well executed wire wrap direct from the forge.
Unfortunately, after their introductory period ends, that $245 Acre sword jumps to $325. Those longer term prices are what I am looking at. Sure, $20 more for a blackened and sharpened CMS is reasonable, but in three months or so, when it's $100 more for a blackened and sharpened CMS, reasonable has gone right out the window.
"Diligo bonus quod contemno malum"

Azure, a saltire argent charged nine mascles azure

Sir William

  • Cogito ergo sum
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,154
Unless of course, they don't sell as well as they think it would/should.  Time'll tell...my interest isn't caught enough to warrant buying one even at the introductory price.
The Black Knight, Order of the Marshal
'Per Pale Azure and Sable, a Chevron counterchanged fimbriated argent.' 
“Pride makes a man, it drives him, it is the shield wall around his reputation.  Men die, but reputation does not.”

SirNathanQ

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,742
  • "Nobiscum Deus" "Libertas ad omnes civitates"
So-so swords aside, this is what happens when you lose a deathmatch with dignity itself. The awkward tunics, the pseudo-historic claims about swords, and above all the cheesy editing and music really make these videos something special in my book. I certainly wouldn't want to fight Clements, but this should be a lesson that even in as small a martial arts community as we are, you can't get by on (admittedly rather considerable) skill alone.
"The maximum use of force is in no way incompatible with the simultaneous use of the intellect." -Carl Von Clausewitz
"He is truly a fearless knight and secure on every side, for his soul is protected by the armor of faith just as his body is protected by armor of steel." -Saint Bernard of Clairvoux

Ian

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,993
So-so swords aside, this is what happens when you lose a deathmatch with dignity itself. The awkward tunics, the pseudo-historic claims about swords, and above all the cheesy editing and music really make these videos something special in my book. I certainly wouldn't want to fight Clements, but this should be a lesson that even in as small a martial arts community as we are, you can't get by on (admittedly rather considerable) skill alone.

That's pretty close to how I felt about this.  I know he knows better.  He knows the swords are far from 'high end' and he knows the MRL costumes he's wearing aren't anything like real historical martial garments, but there he is anyway.  I guess you can only go so long alienating yourself from the rest of a community before you end up having to do this...  Either that or Windlass pays really well... :)
My YouTube Channel - Knyght Errant
My Pinterest

Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

Thorsteinn

  • Dodger of Suicidal Bostonians
  • Squire of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,446
  • Never give up, never surrender.
So-so swords aside, this is what happens when you lose a deathmatch with dignity itself. <snip>

Going to steal this quote if I may.

"Losing a Deathmatch with Dignity" is priceless. lol
When the World shout's "Give Up!", Hope whispers "Try one more time."

Sir James A

  • Weapons & Armor addict
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 6,037
Eh, he's not catering this towards the higher-end historic martial arts crowd like most of us. He's catering towards who he was paid to cater to: people with a passing fancy in medieval Hollywood. He wouldn't be marketing Albion or A&A like this, and the people who would get a thrill and say "OMG I want that sword!" out of this video are very rarely the people who will also say "I'd like to drop a grand on a historically accurate sword based off an actual museum piece".

Regardless, there is something to be said for his enthusiasm in doing these, because we know that he knows they aren't top tier blades, yet he can still be passionate about it.
Knight, Order of the Marshal
Sable, a chevron between three lions statant Argent

SirNathanQ

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,742
  • "Nobiscum Deus" "Libertas ad omnes civitates"
So-so swords aside, this is what happens when you lose a deathmatch with dignity itself. <snip>

Going to steal this quote if I may.

"Losing a Deathmatch with Dignity" is priceless. lol

Go for it, I stole it from Cracked.com back when they were worth reading, before they became total SJWs.
"The maximum use of force is in no way incompatible with the simultaneous use of the intellect." -Carl Von Clausewitz
"He is truly a fearless knight and secure on every side, for his soul is protected by the armor of faith just as his body is protected by armor of steel." -Saint Bernard of Clairvoux

Naythan

  • Naythan
  • Yeoman of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • **
  • Posts: 1,696
  • I am Steel breaker!
Isn't the old saying, Somebody that does the wrong the thing knowing its wrong, is worse than somebody that does it not knowing any better.

Nathan Phillip Max
Page of the Order
"Theough si ambulavero in valle umbrae mortis, non timebo mala,..."