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Author Topic: Narrowing Down my Harness  (Read 2256 times)

Sir_Edward_ReBrook

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Narrowing Down my Harness
« on: 2015-10-22, 23:38:58 »
Gentlemen:

First let me thank you all for being so extremely helpful to me throughout this process. I hope I'm not annoying you too much with my questions, but I want to get things as right as possible, and the more I read, the more I am understanding what Sir Ian and Sir Edward mean by the "rabbit hole." My God, there's just so much to know!

I'm pretty dead set on making my harness (by the way, is this the right term?) similar to the Westminster Psalter knight, as I like the idea of being able to wear my coat of arms on my surcoat and it's just an awesome period for Chivalry, in general. I'm aiming for 1250 - 1300. What are your thoughts on an integrated coif v. a separate coif? I see movie knights wearing the separate coif a lot with the neck portion (the avantail?) on the outside of their surcoat, but the more I look at manuscripts, the more they appear to be integrated.

It seems that a mid to late 13th century English knight ensemble would allow me to also build a Teutonic Order ensemble using much of the same parts. I don't know why I didn't think about this in the first place, since I am a "v." and was actually born in Deutschland. Sir Nathan, what are your thoughts on this? Do you think I'm reaching too far to want to assemble a Teutonic Order harness circa the campaign against Lithuania with the same mail and arming garments as an English 13th century knight? Also, might I just add that your harness is inspirational/phenomenal.

Thank you again.

http://thewayofbeauty.org/files/2012/05/Psalter.8-Kneeling-Knight-Westminster-Psalter.jpg
Respectfully,

W. Edward Graf von Ettendorf-ReBrook, GOTJ

Ian

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Re: Narrowing Down my Harness
« Reply #1 on: 2015-10-23, 00:55:42 »
To the best of my knowledge, the period of 1250-1300 is also the period where the mail coif started to become more commonly worn separately rather than integrated as it was earlier.  It's hard to tell in some artwork because the hem of the coif would disappear under the surcoat anyway,  but by the later parts of the 13th and definitely into the 14th the mail coif is commonly separate.  So you can probably get away with either, depending on exactly when in that 50 year span you're looking to be most typical for.  The earlier, the more you'd favor an integrated coif.

I don't know enough about the differences between 13th century English vs German, but I want to say squared coif hems on separate coifs were much more common in the HRE than in England where you'd probably so more rounded coif hems, so that might be a concern if trying to get this to double as a Teutonic kit. 
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Sir Edward

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Re: Narrowing Down my Harness
« Reply #2 on: 2015-10-23, 01:30:17 »

During this time it's also appropriate to wear your coif in any of several different ways:

* Over the surcoat
* Under the surcoat but over the hauberk
* Under both the hauberk and the surcoat

The advantage of putting it under the surcoat is that you get to display the heraldry on the entire chest, plus the surcoat helps keep the coif's mantle from flopping around on you. If you wear it under the hauberk too, you can get the integrated look without actually integrating it, but how well this works depends on the size of the mantle, and how much the mail catches when trying to put a hauberk on over a coif that's already on your head.
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Sir Douglas

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Re: Narrowing Down my Harness
« Reply #3 on: 2015-10-23, 04:41:51 »
I actually have both a secular kit and a Teutonic kit that's built off the same base items—arming garments, mail, etc. I just switch out things like the helm, shield, and surcoat as I feel like it. That said, while I do go for a reasonable amount of historical accuracy, I'm also not too proud to admit that I'm not super, 100% authentic. I try to get it as close as budget and knowledge allows (budget often wins out). So it's possible to do both, depending on how much you're willing to flub.

Side note: The Westminster Psalter knight is one of my favorite period images. :)
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Sir Edward

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Re: Narrowing Down my Harness
« Reply #4 on: 2015-10-23, 14:03:34 »
Side note: The Westminster Psalter knight is one of my favorite period images. :)

Mine too. When I saw it associated with the Albion Chevalier, it became a must-have. :)

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