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Author Topic: new member, new harness  (Read 14061 times)

westcoastgio

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new member, new harness
« on: 2015-08-30, 23:52:03 »
so, first things first, I know I did everything wrong. Everything.

I bought things out of order. I bought cheap crap to save money. I compromised my vision for my wallet.
My preferred weapon system is probably incongruous with the harness I am aiming toward.

My first purchase was the cool looking (in my opinion) pauldrons and gorget. I got them from a website, off the shelf. they don't seem to fit right, and I am certain they are so inaccurate and unhistorical that it makes your eyes hurt as much as they make my shoulders hurt.

I have an unpainted metal heater shield from the same website, and a mediocre arming sword that are not pictured.

I got a local SCA blacksmith to make the cuirass, I am mostly happy with that piece. I have no idea what period if any it would fit in with.

after those purchases I finally looked into arming wear... and ended up with a sleeveless boxlike garment better suited for mail than my harness.

and then I got that helm, it was free, but I hate it. I hate the flat top. I hate the weight.

I just paid for a custom arming cotte that can actually be used for pointing. my next purchase is going to be a set of arms... from a blacksmith this time!

I am in the process of converting a pair of butted mail sheep-shearing blankets into a paunce and voiders.

my goal is something that fits the "rule of cool" over accuracy, that would be fight legal (with minimal pieces of exchange) for SCA and similar organizations.

I am interested in at least knowing when and where I am being horribly inaccurate. I welcome and request any and all pointers, critiques and criticism.

I cant figure out how to make my picture small enough to post so here is the dropbox link for it: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ir4glyx344rsfhl/20150830_135314.jpg?dl=0

Sir James A

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Re: new member, new harness
« Reply #1 on: 2015-09-08, 14:23:25 »
The cuirass looks nice, and would be early in the "transitional" period since it doesn't have a fauld or peaked front. Does it have a back plate too?

Arming garments is good, that should be the first thing to take care of. Work inside to outside for best results.

For SCA / rule of cool, I'll defer that to some of the SCA guys we have on here.
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westcoastgio

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Re: new member, new harness
« Reply #2 on: 2015-09-09, 05:11:05 »
It is actually an articulated sculpted piece. my blacksmith had rejected the backplate for his personal set, because a couple of the sculptural elements didn't make him happy. he knocked down the price, and the time for the cuirass.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vk3p6fqst39xp2c/DSC03257.JPG?dl=0

I have recently learned that a huge amount of hollywoodism has infected me, so I am running out and trying to educate myself. I'm still more into looks over accuracy, but I want to know where I have chosen looks over history.

edited pic and typo
« Last Edit: 2015-09-09, 14:17:00 by westcoastgio »

Sir Rodney

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Re: new member, new harness
« Reply #3 on: 2015-09-10, 03:07:39 »
Welcome from a SCAdian hailing from the lands of mosquitoes and hockey (Nordskogen, Northshield).  I know you’ll find a wide range of medieval related interests and viewpoints here, as I have.

Don’t beat yourself up about early acquisitions as that’s a road that many, if not all of us, have traveled.  It must be in our genes to run out and get the shiny thing that first grabs our attention.  In fact that may not be such a bad thing as it drives you to read and learn more, and more, and more… 

Do, and purchase, what makes you happy.  If you strive for kit that screams 1381 Prague with authentic materials and craftsmanship, then knock yourself out.  If you’re more of a Ren Fest / WMA / SCA / LARP / whatever guy, then follow your happiness.

Quote from: westcoastgio
my goal is something that fits the "rule of cool" over accuracy, that would be fight legal (with minimal pieces of exchange) for SCA and similar organizations.

The phrase “rule of cool” is new to me (I’m an old guy), but I understand the concept well.  I think you can have the best of both worlds, and you’ve already started with the arming coat.  Use that foundation to build your kit.  I recommend (to no one’s surprise) a mid to late 14th century kit of French, English or Germanic origin.  This period saw rapid armour development with regional variations.  Minimal changes would be necessary to practice SCA rattan, SCA cut-and-thrust, Harnischfechten or LARP.

I’m currently replacing butted mail bits with riveted mail as picking up rings after every practice and war is getting very old.   ;)
"Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say Ni at will to old ladies. There is a pestilence upon this land, nothing is sacred. Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress in this period in history." - Roger the Shrubber

westcoastgio

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Re: new member, new harness
« Reply #4 on: 2015-09-10, 05:25:56 »
I think, at 36 I qualify as an old guy too!

trying to localize it to a region is kinda tough. the ideas in my head are too infused with hollywoodism. My only known European ancestry is Scottish, which to my knowledge copied British styles. Unfortunately for this hobby, my Choctaw ancestors never strapped on cool looking chunks of metal for me to copy today.  ;)

once I have erased some of my hollywoodism I will start narrowing it down to a region, era, and social strata.

if my other hobbies are any indication I am about to end up with several harnesses.

Ian

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Re: new member, new harness
« Reply #5 on: 2015-09-10, 13:04:20 »
trying to localize it to a region is kinda tough. the ideas in my head are too infused with hollywoodism. My only known European ancestry is Scottish, which to my knowledge copied British styles.

This is a guide I wrote for people interested in making historical kits.  Although it may not all be applicable to your goals, the part on localization and the resources in there might help you get started.

http://modernchivalry.org/forum/index.php/topic,3207.0.html


This video playlist may also help give you some ideas on historically based harness and components (I'm not done with the whole series yet, but most of it is there now)

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLllw4zFP7rK_FvP5_XhbxaHL6Mozats7Q
« Last Edit: 2015-09-10, 13:07:41 by Ian »
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Sir William

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Re: new member, new harness
« Reply #6 on: 2015-09-10, 17:19:44 »
trying to localize it to a region is kinda tough. the ideas in my head are too infused with hollywoodism. My only known European ancestry is Scottish, which to my knowledge copied British styles.

This is a guide I wrote for people interested in making historical kits.  Although it may not all be applicable to your goals, the part on localization and the resources in there might help you get started.

http://modernchivalry.org/forum/index.php/topic,3207.0.html


This video playlist may also help give you some ideas on historically based harness and components (I'm not done with the whole series yet, but most of it is there now)

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLllw4zFP7rK_FvP5_XhbxaHL6Mozats7Q

If historical authenticity is something you're after, both of those links are excellent resources with which to start as well as guide you through the process.  I am following them myself- well, the first link; the second I've not done more than glance at- but if Sir Ian is endorsing it, it must be solid.
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westcoastgio

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Re: new member, new harness
« Reply #7 on: 2015-09-10, 17:40:52 »
Sir Ian's video series is actually how I found this site, his videos expounding the advantages of the pourpoint design etc. is why I commissioned the Arming cotte I am waiting on.

I know that I really prefer the more plate less mail eras

Ian

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Re: new member, new harness
« Reply #8 on: 2015-09-10, 18:22:27 »
Sir Ian's video series is actually how I found this site, his videos expounding the advantages of the pourpoint design etc. is why I commissioned the Arming cotte I am waiting on.

I know that I really prefer the more plate less mail eras

Oh cool! 

As far as the historical authenticity thing goes, don't get too hung up on it if it's not your interest.  If you want to blend fantasy and history, or blend time periods, or whatever, go for it.  The important thing to keep in mind though, is that the real historical stuff was designed the way it was because it worked.  So while you can certainly style armor to be more fantastic than historical, some of the underlying concepts I've discussed in those videos, like the way it should fit, and where the weight should be supported, how the armor should interact with the garments and the other armor components, etc still applies to any armor you want to feel comfortable and function, historical or fantasy.
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westcoastgio

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Re: new member, new harness
« Reply #9 on: 2015-09-17, 02:08:44 »
well, when it comes to my interest, I want to fight in armor and I am not too picky what organization I do it with. when I was much younger I wore second hand plastic armor and did a bit of fighting with the SCA. I was no good, and probably more dangerous to myself than others but had fun. now that I am much older, and my metabolism has slowed, I am looking for some kind of activity that appeals to me that actually involves burning calories.

As a know-it-all nerd, I am very interested in the idea of Living History (as I understand it.) However to my knowledge there are no LH groups in central California.

I'm not sure if it's just me but I have a hard time looking at the period painting and effigies and translating what that kind of armor would really look like. so I ordered a few Osprey books off ebay to start my research, now that my research materials have started trickling in, I am narrowing things down.

I really like the Armet/close helm look, and I am going to start picking up pieces in line with that broad era. if anyone has suggestions on where to research to narrow that down even further, I would greatly appreciate.

Ian

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Re: new member, new harness
« Reply #10 on: 2015-09-17, 11:57:04 »
Osprey books can have some really bogus information and interpretations in them, so never take them as gospel. Always confirm with other sources.  The go-to book most  people recommend for new enthusiasts is Arms and Armor of the Medieval Knight by Edge and Paddock.
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westcoastgio

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Re: new member, new harness
« Reply #11 on: 2015-09-18, 03:16:28 »
Osprey books can have some really bogus information and interpretations in them, so never take them as gospel. Always confirm with other sources.  The go-to book most  people recommend for new enthusiasts is Arms and Armor of the Medieval Knight by Edge and Paddock.

Ordered the book from Ebay, I look forward to devouring it.

I really like the armet/closehelm, but so far I am only seeing it paired with asymmetrical pauldrons, and mitten gauntlets. is there a time and place where the Armet, or similar helm was worn with symmetrical pauldrons and finger gauntlets?

I also found an internet smith at http://www.illusionarmoring.com/ that makes a set of plate arms with dragon wing fan plates. I suspect that they are seriously unhistoric... however seeing some of the crazy decorated armors out there I am not 100%

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Re: new member, new harness
« Reply #12 on: 2015-09-18, 03:57:00 »
I also found an internet smith at http://www.illusionarmoring.com/ that makes a set of plate arms with dragon wing fan plates. I suspect that they are seriously unhistoric... however seeing some of the crazy decorated armors out there I am not 100%

Illusion makes armour for the rattan combat crowd (SCA).  I have some of their pieces and my personal opinion is:

Pros
- Reasonably priced
- Armour takes a licking
- Passes the "looks OK from 10' rule of thumb"
- Established, will not take your money and run

Cons
- LONG wait times
- Non-tempered steel
- Heavy
- Historical accuracy takes a back seat
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westcoastgio

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Re: new member, new harness
« Reply #13 on: 2015-09-18, 05:47:38 »
I also found an internet smith at http://www.illusionarmoring.com/ that makes a set of plate arms with dragon wing fan plates. I suspect that they are seriously unhistoric... however seeing some of the crazy decorated armors out there I am not 100%

Illusion makes armour for the rattan combat crowd (SCA).  I have some of their pieces and my personal opinion is:

Pros
- Reasonably priced
- Armour takes a licking
- Passes the "looks OK from 10' rule of thumb"
- Established, will not take your money and run

Cons
- LONG wait times
- Non-tempered steel
- Heavy
- Historical accuracy takes a back seat

any smiths you suggest?

Sir James A

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Re: new member, new harness
« Reply #14 on: 2015-09-22, 05:13:46 »
I really like the armet/closehelm, but so far I am only seeing it paired with asymmetrical pauldrons, and mitten gauntlets. is there a time and place where the Armet, or similar helm was worn with symmetrical pauldrons and finger gauntlets?

Italian style, 1450ish and up.

The asymmetrical pauldrons are for a lance rest / jousting harness. A foot combat harness would potentially have symmetrical pauldrons. Often depends on the purpose of the armor, though some foot combat armors may style be asymmetrical.

Lots of armors with armets that don't have mitten gauntlets. Italians have a "hybrid" style as well, with mitten style down to the first knuckle as an extended plate, but still having individual fingers.
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