Turn of the 13th/14th Century kit

[Sir Douglas]

Okay guys, so here's what I'm thinking. I'm really itching to start on another armor project, but I want to try something other than an helm. I'm shooting for right around the 13th/14th century turn — give or take a decade or two either way — since that's when you start to see some [relatively] simple plate armor that might be around my skill level, and I wouldn't have to get a completely new kit. I can build on what I already have while still being more or less period; I'm willing to fudge a few details for the time being. From looking at art, effigies, and brasses, it seems like some basic poleyns are a good place to start. I'm also thinking about trying some simple schynbalds.

The brass of Sir William FitzRalph shows some basic arms, which I assume are floating, as well as "soupcan"-style poleyns, schynbalds, and simple sabs. It's dated circa 1330s, which is probably about as late as I could get away with with my current gear:


Charles de Boscherville shows some schynbalds. And William Longespée has some very basic couters and poleyns, though I wonder if they aren't meant to be cuir bouilli instead of plate. This image has some interesting stuff going on as well, particularly the fellow on the horse.
So that's kind of the general direction I think I want to go.

Now even though I'd kind of like to shoot for a German feel for my Teutonic kit, they seem to have been somewhat light on plate at this time as far as I can tell, so I'm not against using stuff from other places (though any info on German equivalents is of course appreciated). The main idea here is more to practice my armoring skills than to make a 100% German kit or a 100% English kit, etc. That said, I am trying to get the construction of the individual components as correct as I'm able.

So, with all that out of the way, a few questions that immediately spring to mind:
Were gamboised cuisses always worn underneath the soupcan-style poleyns at this time? Are they necessary to keep the poleyn on, or could I cheat and get away without them?
Also, what generally holds the poleyn secure? Is the singular strap around the leg sufficient, or are there points somewhere that aren't evident in period artwork?
Same with schynbalds. Were they pointed to the mail, or just held by straps? I've noticed they often have three straps: one above the calf, one around the calf, and one just above the ankle.

So, suggestions for the direction of my kit? Discussions? Insights? Some pieces I may have overlooked? Thanks in advance.

[Sir Patrick]

Not sure about if gamboised cuisses were always worn or the particulars of the pointing, but from personal experience, you will need to point the polyens to keep them from sliding down.  On my cuisses, I placed points on either side of my knees and tied them around the strap just behind the polyen.  Worked well enough last faire season, but for added stability I'm going to drill two small holes at the top of the polyen and point tie that to the cuisses as well.  Hope that helps.

[Sir Wolf]

ya i always point just the polyens at the top, then buckle around the back of the knee.

[Sir Douglas]

Excellent! Very helpful. I'll plan for points then.

[Sir Edward]

The poleyns I have from MercTailor point at the sides, and they stay mostly in place. I can see how pointing at the top might be advantageous. My biggest problems is that the mail chausses sometimes sit at slightly different heights on my leg, depending how tightly I tied things, and how long I've had them on, and this affects the position of the knee.

[Sir James A]

My floating poleyns have the strap behind the knee and points at both sides, that I lace directly to the mail, since I have full mail chausses.

For schynbalds, my guess is that the 3 strap combination is for one strap above the calf to keep it from sliding down, and the other two more to keep it from flopping around. A floating one functions different than a case & articulated greave, so the 3-strap setup looks functional to me - though I have not tried it.

[Sir Patrick]

My Merc Tailor schynbalds are 2-strappers. No problems whatsoever with them moving around.

[Sir Douglas]

My biggest problems is that the mail chausses sometimes sit at slightly different heights on my leg, depending how tightly I tied things, and how long I've had them on, and this affects the position of the knee.

That's a concern of mine, as well. I'm wondering if pointing to a gamboised cuisse instead of directly to the mail might help a little, but I'll have to experiment a bit and see what happens. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to make some cuisses if I had to.

For schynbalds, my guess is that the 3 strap combination is for one strap above the calf to keep it from sliding down, and the other two more to keep it from flopping around. A floating one functions different than a case & articulated greave, so the 3-strap setup looks functional to me - though I have not tried it.

That's what I was thinking, too. I remember a point coming up in that other thread about the calf muscle preventing legs from sliding down, so it seems like it should work like that in this situation as well.



Great info, guys; keep it coming! I have to say, if there's one thing my adventures into armoring has taught me, it's that those guys back then were smart.