Knighly Orders during the Crusades

[LionPride32]

Hello gents,

I was thinking this morning about three orders that I come across the most when reading about the crusades (3rd mostly, and 1st). What is everyone's thoughts on the Templars, the Hospitallers, and the Tuetonic orders. Well, obviously if you aren't at least SOMEWHAT familiar with the Templars, then life on the moon must be great! I believe the Hospitallers were what the name implies - They ran Hospitals servicing knights and crusaders. All I know of the Tuetonic Order is that they were German..



I'm curious as to what anyone else here thinks about each order. And,

[Sir Douglas]

As far as Crusading Orders go, I think the Hospitallers were the baddest of the bad. I mean come on: wearing a black, woolen cappa (that was at one point long-sleeved) in the hot, Middle Eastern sun? That takes some serious manliness there.

Anyway, yeah, the Hospitallers started out running hospitals, which at that time weren't just for treating sick and injured, but also providing for the poor and for pilgrims. It was essentially a "hospitality house". Eventually, they organized into a military order as well.

The Teutonic Order also had a presence in the Holy Land (I want to say they first organized in the Third[?] Crusade), but they're probably best known for the Northern Crusades against the Baltic Pagans.

You also had the Orders of Santiago and Calatrava, which participated in the Iberian Reconquista.

[Aiden of Oreland]

Templars created a great system of banking. Tuetonic Knights are still an active order. According to Wikipedia (again, this is jut wikipedia) that they wish to serve the Vatican.

[Sir Nate]

As far as I have learned the Templars are blamed for every horrible act in history that crusaders did. Not Templars.
They weren't bad, Im sure they may have done bad things that I don't know about but they really didn't do anything that bad.
They are my favorite order as you can see(maybe that is because Gallahed in monty python bore a cross) but I also specialize in them when it comes to knowledge of medieval things.

Templars created a great system of banking. Tuetonic Knights are still an active order. According to Wikipedia (again, this is jut wikipedia) that they wish to serve the Vatican.

Yes they did have banking. but they were also very organized when it came to military tactics and keeping a head count on every member. There were a total of 40,000 templars all over europe when france began to prosecute them. There was a database of how many of the Templars were knight, soldiers, etc. and they had files on every member. I love reading about tactics they would have on the battlefield.
Templars represented power in all areas. They were definitely the strongest of the 3 orders.

The templars last holdout was in scottland, until I heard otherwise from a tourist at the m.d. renfaire telling me they went to an island off the coast of spain. anyone know anything about that?

also learned about the Mongol wars last year, very interesting battles happened.

[Sir Douglas]

Tuetonic Knights are still an active order.

Yep, and so are the Hospitallers, though I think they go by the Order of Malta now.
Heh, actually the Order of Santiago is still around as well, and I think the Order of Calatrava lasted until sometime in the 18th or 19th century. It's just the poor Templars that got snuffed out early.

also learned about the Mongol wars last year, very interesting battles happened.

Dan Carlin of Hardcore History did an excellent podcast series about the Mongols. They were seriously scary dudes. The extent of their empire during its height is just astounding.

[Sir Nate]

Tuetonic Knights are still an active order.

Yep, and so are the Hospitallers, though I think they go by the Order of Malta now.
Heh, actually the Order of Santiago is still around as well, and I think the Order of Calatrava lasted until sometime in the 18th or 19th century. It's just the poor Templars that got snuffed out early.

also learned about the Mongol wars last year, very interesting battles happened.

Dan Carlin of Hardcore History did an excellent podcast series about the Mongols. They were seriously scary dudes. The extent of their empire during its height is just astounding.

Poor Templars.
Ya the mongol wars are very unheard of. I remember reading about one battle that took place in modern day Poland were it was 40k of Europeans against 80k of mongols. The mongols had light armor and consisted of mostly archers, extremely organized archer which was what made them deadly because, one report states that they used flags to alert there soldiers to do different tactics and there leaders stayed hidden and did not lead there men into combat. But the Europeans probably would have won this battle because of there heavy cavalry that just mowed threw the Mongols infantry. And France had sent Templars there and teutonics also were present at this battle. But sadly the Europeans lost do to someone shouting retreat on there side and a huge section of the army left and the mongols were able to flank the rest. It is unknown wether it was a Mongolian or a European that shouted it, and who it was. It can be believed that a Mongolian did it to throw the enemy off. And I the chaos of battle no one can really tell.

[Sir Nate]

Sorry I didn't mean to quote you 3 times lol. It was one of those moments

[Sir James A]

The Templars were the "special forces" of the day. They had very strict battle tactics. You didn't leave the battle unless the Templar flag fell. If you did, you were a deserter and other Templars could kill you. There are stories (and some evidence) of Templar battles against the Saracens (or Persians?) in which they were shot, lost hands, lost arms, and otherwise "mortally wounded" but continued to fight for some time. They were the epitome of the "fight to the death" cliche.

The templars last holdout was in scottland, until I heard otherwise from a tourist at the m.d. renfaire telling me they went to an island off the coast of spain. anyone know anything about that?

Knights of Malta, on the isle of Malta. General conspiracy theory that many of the Templars fled and joined the Knights of Malta and "blended in" to avoid capture and further persecution. It's somewhat believable in that the Templars had a fleet of over 100 ships, and when they were captured and put to trial, the total number of ships that were taken is.... none.

However, it's a question of semantics. The Templars were subject only to the pope. The pope disbanded the Templar order. As such, "Templar" order does not exist. Whether or not people who were Templars when the Order existed, and whether or not they escaped capture and took relics/secrets/etc, and where they went, and who their descendants may be, are the things in question.

Sir Nathan is the Teutonic order guru.

[Sir Nate]

The Templars were the "special forces" of the day. They had very strict battle tactics. You didn't leave the battle unless the Templar flag fell. If you did, you were a deserter and other Templars could kill you. There are stories (and some evidence) of Templar battles against the Saracens (or Persians?) in which they were shot, lost hands, lost arms, and otherwise "mortally wounded" but continued to fight for some time. They were the epitome of the "fight to the death" cliche.

The templars last holdout was in scottland, until I heard otherwise from a tourist at the m.d. renfaire telling me they went to an island off the coast of spain. anyone know anything about that?

Knights of Malta, on the isle of Malta. General conspiracy theory that many of the Templars fled and joined the Knights of Malta and "blended in" to avoid capture and further persecution. It's somewhat believable in that the Templars had a fleet of over 100 ships, and when they were captured and put to trial, the total number of ships that were taken is.... none.

However, it's a question of semantics. The Templars were subject only to the pope. The pope disbanded the Templar order. As such, "Templar" order does not exist. Whether or not people who were Templars when the Order existed, and whether or not they escaped capture and took relics/secrets/etc, and where they went, and who their descendants may be, are the things in question.

Sir Nathan is the Teutonic order guru.

Ya I read that the templars morphed with orders like the hospitallers and teutonics, I did here about the malta thing.
ya 100 ships, thousands of men that werent taken or killed. Ive heard a consipracy theory that they came to america, also there is the theory that the free masons are Templars. I think that is even a rank in the free masons.

[Lord Dane]

The only current order closest to resembling the traditional Order of the Knights Templar in practice today (after their 1307 demise) is the 'Knights of Christ' (the former Portugal Commandery of the Templar Order). Just thought I would mention that. To associate the Knights Templar with Freemasonry is still presumed (but not necessarily refutable) as many traditions and rituals appear in their methods. It is highly impractical to say they had no influence over them after being disbanded by the Papacy, and found new ways to hide themselves to continue their efforts. I still believe the Templars exist today in their non-traditional forms. Their history is always so intriguing to the masses.

I am one that is convinced the Knights Templars came to America and established themselves here with the expeditions of Prince Henry Sinclair, and possibly even before. I have seen too much of the reported evidence myself being based in New England that to me substantiates the claims. And yes, the Freemasons have a degree rank that encompasses the Templar rite. 

[Sir Nate]

The only current order closest to resembling the traditional Order of the Knights Templar in practice today (after their 1307 demise) is the 'Knights of Christ' (the former Portugal Commandery of the Templar Order). Just thought I would mention that. To associate the Knights Templar with Freemasonry is still presumed (but not necessarily refutable) as many traditions and rituals appear in their methods. It is highly impractical to say they had no influence over them after being disbanded by the Papacy, and found new ways to hide themselves to continue their efforts. I still believe the Templars exist today in their non-traditional forms. Their history is always so intriguing to the masses.

I am one that is convinced the Knights Templars came to America and established themselves here with the expeditions of Prince Henry Sinclair, and possibly even before. I have seen too much of the reported evidence myself being based in New England that to me substantiates the claims. And yes, the Freemasons have a degree rank that encompasses the Templar rite. 

The Templars gave maps to Columbus and there is a Templar church in Europe lined with corn far before Europeans had corn. And corn wasn't introduced until 1492

[Aiden of Oreland]

Ya know, I am currently in the position to become a free mason. All I must do is ask this certain member that I know. He also owns horses to ride so I could also ask him to teach me to ride. And since I am preparing myself for HEMA and getting my equipment together, then join the order of the marshal if accepted, I will be a true knight 😋

[LionPride32]

Wow, that's a lot of replies and there's still much to be learned! I plan on buying a book or 2 about the Templars. Any suggestions on good books???

[Aiden of Oreland]

A good fictional story is "The Last Templar"

[Sir Nate]

A good fictional story is "The Last Templar"

Id recomend The knights of the black and white by jack whyte, part 1 of a templar trilogy.
Ive started reading them they seem very accurate to life back in the days of Templars

The last Templar is a good book involving Templars, but if you want Historically accurate don't read it.