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What would you have been in the medieval age?
Sir Edward:
This is an interesting topic that Sword Chick and I were discussing recently. Sorry if I'm stealing your thunder, Sword Chick! But I though this would be good to go ahead and post so we can discuss it.
The question is, what would you have been during the medieval period? What line of work would you have had? Would you still have been a soldier, knight, mercenary, or anything at all involving swords and armor?
Obviously it would have a great deal to do with what you were born into, in terms of class, and family trade.
But one of the things that makes this question interesting is the large number of technical people (and geeks in general) that are drawn to swords and historical swordsmanship. A deeper question might be why is that the case? For a lot of folks, their interest in history (or fantasy) has a lot to do with an escape from the mundane modern life. Perhaps if they lived during the times of our studies, these things would also be mundane. And add to this the fact that most techies and geeks don't consider themselves to be the least bit athletic, and yet in medieval times, it could be argued that jousting and tournaments of the knightly class were the epitome of athleticism. Swordsmanship and other combat skills are certainly athletic skills, and ones that would have been highly valued. And being less athletically gifted could cost you your life.
So where does the geek fit in? Having strong technical or artistic ability might have lead one to work as a carpenter, blacksmith, glassblower, or any number of other trades. Or perhaps, if they were to be involved in a military career, they might have done better as a tactician than as a soldier.
Statistically, we'd probably all be peasants. But ignoring that, what do you think you might have done for a living back then? If it's not military or combat related, what else and why?
I'm not sure I can answer that, in my case. I'd have done well in technical trade, no doubt. But would I have been a knight or man at arms? It's possible I'd have been repelled by the "mundane brutality" and sought something else, but I don't know. I might also have been drawn to it, as I have been today.
Sword Chick:
Sir Edward, You didn't steal my thunder at all. As I said, it's something I had been thinking about posting, but finding the right words had been a bit of a struggle for me.
What I had been wondering is not just where the geek would fit in, but where we, those that are drawn to the sword arts in this time period would have fit in then. Certainly a preponderance of us are geeks in some way. Would that have been an advantage or disadvantage?
I started thinking about this a lot recently after a couple of conversations with men whose athleticism and swordsmanship I greatly admire. Both said essentially the same thing, that they were not athletic growing up. The phrases they used were something along the lines of "I was the typical gawky teenager" and "I couldn't climb the ropes in gym class." (I'm leaving off names, but now they probably know who they are.) :) Obviously they've trained well beyond that point, but I wondered if in the time period they would have been given the chance or if only the natural jock would have been trained.
For me, the sword arts are as much a mental exercise as a physical one. If you'll pardon me while I stereotype for a moment, would a "typical jock", then or now, have seen it that way? Would the mental aspect have been more difficult or would it have been just as natural as the physical since they would already have the body awareness?
When the LHC first came on line, my Saturday longsword class got into a fun discussion about it before class one morning. I can't help but wonder if a similar discussion would have happened before a hockey training session.
Personal confessions of a geek: I can better grasp a play and internalize the concepts from it when I look at it as a proof. Each movement is a natural followup from the movement before and follows directly from the theory.
As far as where I would have fit in personally, well, being a woman I wouldn't have the options I do now. I would like to think that I would be like one of Brian Jacques female characters in his Redwall series. The women that minded the home fires were as strong and their role was as important as the warriors.
Sir Edward:
You're not having any trouble with finding the right words that I can see. :)
I totally forgot to bring up the mental aspects of these martial systems! Very good points.
Das Bill:
Its an interesting question. For myself, I can't even begin to imagine an answer, though. Setting aside statistical probability that I'd be a peasant (and quite possibly already dead), its really impossible for me to imagine who I am without my surrounding culture and context. The events and people who've shaped me are from a completely different world than what would have shaped me in medieval life. Even though I try to study and have a better understanding of past cultures, they are still quite alien to a person who did not grow up in that society.
But that's a boring answer. :)
So for the sake of playing the game, let me give a subtly different answer. Rather than saying who I would have been, I'm going to say who I could have seen myself as. If I were alive in the 15th century, I could easily see myself as some sort of tradesman who practiced with a fencing guild. Perhaps I eventually would have worked my way up to become a teacher. Fencing masters, despite the modern connotations of the word "master", were still working class, not nobility. So I'd be the kind of person who worked for a living, who participated in martial arts for the love of the art, but not necessarily as a true warrior. I'd live up to the Chivalric ideals that were taught in the fencing guilds, and I might even spend time serving in the town militia or something of that sort, but I don't think I'd actually be a professional warrior. Its not exactly the most romantic life, but somehow I think it would suit me.
Das Bill:
--- Quote from: Sword Chick on 2008-12-17, 21:16:23 --- Both said essentially the same thing, that they were not athletic growing up. The phrases they used were something along the lines of "I was the typical gawky teenager" and "I couldn't climb the ropes in gym class." (I'm leaving off names, but now they probably know who they are.) :)
--- End quote ---
I haven't the faintest clue what you're talking about. ;)
--- Quote ---Obviously they've trained well beyond that point, but I wondered if in the time period they would have been given the chance or if only the natural jock would have been trained.
--- End quote ---
Well, if a male were born as a commoner, he likely developed quite a bit of athleticism based on his daily life. Since desk jobs weren't exactly common (leaving aside religious professions for the moment), most work involved a fair bit of physical labor. We know that many commoners practiced some form of martial art, such as wrestling or staff. In some places and periods, it was even required to an extent (the English and their archery, for example). By the 15th century fencing guilds were much more common throughout Europe, and commoners trained in some of the knightly arts even if they weren't knights themselves.
--- Quote ---For me, the sword arts are as much a mental exercise as a physical one. If you'll pardon me while I stereotype for a moment, would a "typical jock", then or now, have seen it that way? Would the mental aspect have been more difficult or would it have been just as natural as the physical since they would already have the body awareness?
--- End quote ---
I think, just as now, some viewed it more mentally than others. A good comparison is to look at long established living traditions that exist in modern times. Does a jujitsu fighter practice because he loves the technical aspects of the art, or because he likes to take people down on the mat? It could be either or both, depending on the person. I suspect if you went into Master Lekuchner's fechtschule in the 15th century you'd find people practicing ringen who would give you just as many varied answers.
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