Armored or Not- what makes you a Knight?

[Sir William]

I was toying with the idea of getting rid of all of my current collection of armor and starting from scratch; then I segued into thinking about whether or not my armor makes me credible, or if by wearing it, I give credence to the armor?

Does armor make one a knight?  No, no...it doesn't- although it can make you feel knightly; it certainly did for me before I took the oath of knighthood myself...then getting inducted into the Order further solidified it for me, but what about all those who are termed cos-players?  I'm sure a good number of them feed into it and believe themselves to be...what's your take on it?

Let's discuss.

[Sir Edward]

It certainly goes beyond the armor you wear, of course. Though as a practical suggestion-- I'd consider getting the new stuff first, and let go of the old stuff as you go, so you're never forced to be "naked".

[Sir William]

Excellent point, Lord Commander...not much fun cruising the Faire in mundane attire.

[Sir Sorbus]

I consider myself a knight, yet the only armour I have is my fencing kevlars. ^_^

The problem with a discussion like this is that the definition needs to be flexible. If you put down that knight needs these qualifications, people who deserve it may not classify, and those who do not deserve it may. When a set system like that is put into effect, over time the system becomes bureaucratic and heartless, which is not something we, as knights should stand for.

The way my Order selects knights, and the way we recommend to the movement we started, is that a candidate is a knight if considered knightly by all existing knights of any given order. If they can impress all in an order, then they fit the qualifications FOR that order, and if they should be approved for an order, they could be considered a knight. Whether or not they choose to join said order, or remain a lone knight is up to them, but from the point that they are approved for an order, they classify as a knight.

As for knightly living, it's merely a title. If you consider yourself to be living a knightly existence, then you can classify yourself as a knight. But a self-given title is worthless if you are the only one who acknowledges it. You have to live knightly, and have people think you are worthy of such a title before it is of any real value.

[Sir James A]

Excellent topic. I'll spill my mind on it for a bit, and try to keep it relatively brief.

IMO, Armor doesn't make a Knight any more than a Knight makes the armor "knightly". Now, "first impression", someone in a full harness tends to be thought of as a knight or warrior at first glance by most people. Only by interacting with the person can you begin to find out if they act in a manner befitting a knight; whether they wear armor or not. A knave in armor is no knight, yet a knight without armor is still a knightly.

I find cos-players to be on a different spectrum than us, odd as that may sound. They're interpreting a specific person, typically fantasy, whereas, we are as ourselves, and basing our notions, actions and equipment on historical precedence. If we're talking anime and such, they're not going to actually be aliens, or shoot fireballs out of their hands, so it's completely a fantasy context. And it makes them happy, so, more power to 'em!

The biggest difference I feel between myself and people who do that, is when I take off the armor and go home, I still try to act knightly when I'm away from everything. I open doors for people, say please and thank you ... common courtesy, to most, but something lost to many.

[Lord Dane]

It certainly goes beyond the armor you wear, of course. Though as a practical suggestion-- I'd consider getting the new stuff first, and let go of the old stuff as you go, so you're never forced to be "naked".

I say let go of the personal materialism & embrace selflessness above all. Being knightly certainly entails more virtue than one's tin-can & armory (although I consider it to be an essential component but that's just me).   

[Joshua Santana]

I know this is late but after reading this I think I have a mind to respond to this discussion.

What makes me a Knight is three things:

1.  Living by a Warrior Code of Moral Principles and Virtues that makes me stand out in spite of appearances (with or without armor)

2.  Being set apart from the rest of a society in which it willingly degrades and disregards Morality including the notion of Honor (save those that recognize it and respect it).

3.  Even with no armor or sword, being a Knight does not mean having the equipment and showing it off as though you were a soldier heavily decorated for service in a combat mission.  Rather being a Knight is a choice to live with Moral Integrity and Honor in your daily life and showing your Chivalry by deeds rather than words.

[RackThor]

In my mind I would like to draw a line on the ground and ask myself if I had all the armor in the world I could ever want do I do that sword and shield justice, do I present myself in a manner comparable to that of Sir Marshal and what those articles would have stood for for him? If so then I am truly being knightly, however if I am not upholding the code than I am but a man in shiny metal. Consider what was spoken by the son of King Edward in one of my favorite films A Knights Tale to "Sir Ulric" before he was truly knighted, and I think that would be applicable to this topic.

I was toying with the idea of getting rid of all of my current collection of armor and starting from scratch; then I segued into thinking about whether or not my armor makes me credible, or if by wearing it, I give credence to the armor?

Does armor make one a knight?  No, no...it doesn't- although it can make you feel knightly; it certainly did for me before I took the oath of knighthood myself...then getting inducted into the Order further solidified it for me, but what about all those who are termed cos-players?  I'm sure a good number of them feed into it and believe themselves to be...what's your take on it?

Let's discuss.

[Sir James A]

Well said, RackThor. As historically inaccurate as A Knights Tale is, for entertainment and intent of the story, it's one of my favorite movies. I know that scene well.

[Sir William]

As do we all, I think.  That's a true sentiment, nevermind when or who delivered it.

[Thorsteinn]

A real knight uses his whitebelt to keep his surcoat closed.

[Sir William]

Who wears open surcoats? lol

[Lord Dane]

Who wears open surcoats? lol

Well sometimes I like to let loose & let the surcoat just hang there like a robe. Now where are my slippers???

[SirNathanQ]

I say that the armour is simply an outward expression of the knight within, especially in our context. It's really just letting a person's chivalry shine out for all to see, similar to an amplifier to an electric guitar. Does it make the sound? No, but its loudness and prescence are the reason you can't play like a rockstar without one.

[Sir Steven T.]

I have often pondered this very questions myself, and it is one that I pose to each and every Squire I take under my wing prior to them becoming a knight. My humble opinion is that Knights are not made, they are recognized. What makes one a knight is a special something inside them that sets them apart from thier fellow man. It radiates a leadership on the field and off ( a natural willingness to listen to them), a sense of trust that allows people to divulge thier inner thoughts to them with complete confidence that they can be trusted (even if they hardly know them), an ability to be strong when others need them to brace upon, and to be gentle when they need to be comforting. A knights greatest virtues are in how they affect those around them in a positive manner. Does this mean a knight is morally perfect, by no means. A knight is a mortal and as such will fail to live up to thier beliefs from time to time, but a knight that believes in a code has the strength to aknowledge his weaknesses and failings and get back up and try again. To the point of armour... I believe that the armor is akin to a uniform, its so that people see us and know we are knights, not for our egos, but rather for thier ease. From a marketing standpoint, the flash of the armour and the clash of swords draws people to us, and allows us to meet them so that we find those diamonds in the rough in the crowd.
Just my 2 cents worth my Brothers.