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Finally! Good News!

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Lord Dane:

--- Quote from: Joshua Santana on 2013-01-22, 19:10:15 ---I knew this would be the reaction and I will input my reason for posting this.

Thorsteinn: I would think so too, feminists do appear to be out of touch with the other side of women as seen clearly in the SCA.  You have noble intentions and I do likewise the same with the Lady that gives companionship to this stout warrior heart of mine.

Sir James: Kudos for Prudence! 

Sir Brian: You and I are quite similar in upbringing.  Not all women are the same and those that know what we believe in will in kind be respectful if not supportive of what we believe in.

How can we be chivalrous to women who don't know what Honor, Courage, Loyalty, Faith, Nobility are to show us respect, it is like they are "destroyed for lack of knowledge". 

You are correct and I will state this.  I came across this article of facebook, I read and I perceived this to be good news or a harbinger of something we can anticipate in the near future.  The feminist movement in the past have been aggressors against those who carry the Chivalric legacy, yet with this I am beginning to see a waning which if the opportunity arrives can be a revolutionary moment in which we Knights of The Order of The Marshal can ignite a cultural revival of Chivalry.  Think about it, spreading the value and importance of what we all are sworn to follow and to live to our last heart beat and the message spreading like wildfire. It can do great justice to the cause of this Order and to all other Chivalric Orders (yes even the SCA) here in this country. 

I know I sound like a visionary or someone quixotic crazy.  But I do not deny that if there was an opportunity to spread the Code of Chivalry, I would not miss it.

--- End quote ---

'Ignorance' is not a defense in the law nor is it one in showing a lack of respect in response to 'common courtesy & decency'. Claiming a lack of knowledge is not acceptable to me now-a-days when knowledge is abundant & accessible to all. Learning is a continuous part of life, as it is ever changing. Once you are introduced to it and comprehend the reason, it should become expectation that you learn from it and conform accordingly. When you open your mind, you also open the door to understanding and become the better for it through simple exposure. I have no regards for people that blame their poor behavior on upbringing or on some fixated mindset, and even less for those who refuse to change it.

Here's some food for thought for those feminists who are so easily offended by chivalrous courtesy... If you think someone holding a door for you is insulting because someone is attempting to show you kindness ... just wait until that same door gets slammed in your face. See the difference???   

   

Jessica Finley:
As a thought exercise, consider for a moment a woman who *insists* that you perform these 'chivalrous' acts of holding open doors and closing them for her, pulling out her chair and pushing it in, etc.

Imagine, for a moment, everywhere you went with this woman, she would walk up to a door and stand there.  Not saying anything about it, simply waiting for you to open the door to the car so she can get in.  At dinner, she says, "I would like to visit the lady's room" and continues to sit in her chair until you put down your fork, get up, come around and pull out her chair for her to get up. 

You might find this gets annoying after a while.  You might think to yourself, "Can't she open a darn door?". 

The extremes of these ideas is the problem, of course.  I am a "do it yourself" kind of woman, not out of offence or feminism, but simply because I am from the midwest and we are of pioneer stock.  It's simply assumed that everyone pulls their own weight in all things.  So, these sorts of niceties weren't as prevalent as they are here on a coast.  While I am *fine* with someone pulling out a chair, opening a door, holding my hand as I come down icy stairs, etc., I feel uncomfortable because it is unfamiliar.  I feel awkward, ungraceful, unsure.  Like someone asking me to waltz, when I have no idea how to do so. 

I am sure the reverse would be true, were a woman to insist upon all of these things being done for her, that many men would feel uncomfortable with the insistence. 

Sir Edward:

I think it's also useful to remember that you can be 'chivalrous' (in this context) to men as well. I try to hold doors for absolutely everyone, for instance. :)  There's a level of common courtesy that you can extend to everyone. If they're unreceptive, it's no big deal, you can just move on.

Sir James A:
I'm of a similar mind to Thorsteinn; I don't want a subservient, nor do I want to be one, either. I want an equal. If a woman was unable to open a door, then it's expected that we should do so. If she's able to open the door, yet, we do so out of love / kindness / common courtesy, it is in a completely different context. Doing for others what they can do for themselves, compared to doing for others what they cannot do, are two different sides of the coin to me.

For the lucky few who can afford to be the sole income of the house and raise a family, kudos to you. I'm personally uncomfortable with a mate who doesn't work. I know I'm going to die (unless my Highlander fantasies come true...), and when I'm dead, I don't want to be on my death bed thinking of how my spouse will not be able to support herself alone (and potentially kids) after my death. I want to know she *is* capable of opening her own doors, earning her own money, and supporting herself without reliance on another; not that she'll have to seek out another man to survive after my death. With the equality, I feel I'm actually *doing* something appreciated, rather than expected or insisted upon, when I open a door, carry a bag, take her to a movie, to dinner, etc.

I can, and have, washed dishes, done laundry, vacuumed, cleaned, and so on, while married. I do not consider that "woman's work" or a wife's responsibility. There are those who are happy in being home-makers and care-givers, and I salute them. It's a job that is greatly under-appreciated by many, and something fewer and fewer couples every year can afford to do.

Joshua Santana:
You make very good points.  The recognition of respect or in this case Chivalry is an individual based perspective and it can vary from one individual to another.

In regards to the article, knowledge is accessible for sure, however the application of knowledge is what is most needed.  The knowledge of Honor and living by it requires more than theory, it requires application of the theory or ideals.  (Lord Dane, I like your ending comment and I agree with you.)

Ah Mrs. Finely!  You are most correct and insooth this is the case most of the time (let us all be grounded in reality or "let's be real").  Your point is something I can wrap my head around and being of pioneer stock is a good thing (gentlemen take note!) and is complimentary and beneficial to the Chivalrous Lifestyle.  What i would say to a lady who is not familiar with these mannerisms is "let me bless you with courtesy (or chivalry since we are professional knights  ;))"  or I would ask her "would you want to know why I do these things"?  This is a great starting point for a conversation topic and it serves as a lesson in Humility, knowing that there are people who have never even heard of Chivalry, what does that makes?  Not just swordsmen/swordswomen, Knights (professional), Warriors, and heralds in a darkening time, but also teachers.  Teaching the young, the maturing and those who have not heard or known the value of Honor, Loyalty, Faith, Courage, Nobility and Humility. 

Sir Edward:  Sire you are not the only one who does this, in fact that is why I think I will dub myself as "The Doorman Knight".

Sir James:  You speak truth and I agreed with you most of the time.  ;)  What i will say is this (not to make this into one of my infamous lengthy speeches).  Doing these acts out of love/kindness/courtesy extended to all is the way to go.  Teamwork is essential if not vital for a building a strong foundation in life but also marriage and family.  It is critical that you continue to build a means to support your family if you were not going to live on (Heaven forbid).  This is the purpose of an inheritance or leaving behind something that will benefit others after you are gone (I cannot help but remember what the Marshal said on his death bed when asked about the tournament money).

Bravo, same here, I am the pest control, dish washer, vacuum man, laundry delivery boy (yes  I do laundry), cleaner and so on.  I am busy around the clock and I know the future Lady will greatly appreciate this aspect of me.  I agree that care-takers and home-makers do a great service to others.   

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