Learning Styles for Martial Arts

[Sir Percival]

As a novice, I'm trying to find an effective way to learn and practise the swordplay, polearm arts and other manoeuvres that I've learnt thus far.  I confess I've been hesitant to participate in classes at the WMA school where I do volunteer work since I've found the general pace of the classes too quick for me.  Moreover, I find it difficult to translate mentally what I see an instructor demonstrate to doing it myself.  I'm a very analytical and verbal person, so I learn well from memorising written instructions, but I really do need to be shown something like swordplay as in well in order learn it properly, so I can't just pick up a manual and try to learn swordplay properly on my own.  Yet, I also need detailed written instructions or some other kind of notes to revise, however, since my experience when taking classes has been leaving the class unsure about what I had learnt, and then trying to practise at home but being unable to remember key points.  The school's longsword and arming-sword curricula derive primarily from the works of Fiore and Vadi, but they haven't got true manuals of their own.

I also know that to improve genuinely, I do need to spar with other people: there's no way around it, but at this point, I'm doubtful how much I'll be able to take away from the experience.  I recognise that I lack some confidence in the basic steps, guards and strokes, and more confidence when it comes to sequences of the above.

Any advice?  I've asked my school about private lessons, and they seem willing to provide some in exchange for the work that I do, but I'd like something that I can practise regularly and efficiently.

[Silvanus]

Hi Sir Percival,

If you're looking for a great book on fighting techniques, Christian Tobler's Fighting with the German Longsword is my vade mecum. My fight group use it and we always have a copy with us when we spar. There are also chapters on spear, polearm, grappling and other techniques. His descriptions are very step-by-step, with accompanying photos. Here is a link:

http://www.amazon.com/Fighting-German-Longsword-Christian-Tobler/dp/1891448242/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1351136169&sr=8-1&keywords=9781891448249

Unbelievable, the cheapest copy on Amazon is $224. Sometimes I loathe capitalism. 

As for finding sparring mates, some men and women from my classes at VAF simply started meeting outside of class. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some folks at the academy where you volunteer who might be doing the same, and you could join them.

[Sir Edward]

I've had similar difficulties at times. When it comes to other subjects, I'm much better at concepts than I am at memorization of facts. With swordplay, I think it's much the same, so rather than try to memorize plays and "correct" responses, I try to make it more conceptual in how I absorb it.

What's often referred to as "muscle memory" is something that works well for me, to a point. Since I don't really practice much outside of class, I don't have the large numbers of repetitions behind most of the things I've learned, but rather I've tried to absorb things that I consider to be core to the art-- Close off the line of attack from your opponent, control the center, watch your distance, keep your blade frequently between his blade and your body, attack where his sword was, not is, go soft when he's hard, and go hard when he's soft...  things like that.

Usually when I'm free-fencing with people, I also don't worry much about who will win. Actually, I think I lose more often than not. But what's important to me is that I feel like I'm clean in my execution, even if I've picked the wrong move... to know that I'm representing the art, and furthering my experience. I'll often try to mix things up by doing something that might be tactically bad, but experimentally is useful for me to try.  Sometimes it gives me something new to work with, and sometimes it goes horrifically wrong.

I think the best way to train is to do both the controlled practice, as well as free-fencing. One without the other is weaker than doing both. Confidence can come with practice, but I think it's important not to let the lack of confidence keep you from trying. Sometimes just getting out there and throwing yourself into it is the best way to get your confidence.

[Sir Edward]

http://www.amazon.com/Fighting-German-Longsword-Christian-Tobler/dp/1891448242/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1351136169&sr=8-1&keywords=9781891448249

Unbelievable, the cheapest copy on Amazon is $224. Sometimes I loathe capitalism. 

One of his newer books is available at a much better price here:

http://www.freelanceacademypress.com/insaintgeorgesname.aspx

Part of the reason that his older books have sky-rocketed is because of legal issues with  his former publisher, and they're not readily available anymore. Not without putting money in the pocket of the publisher who wasn't paying royalties to the authors. But that's a whole separate story (with its own thread somewhere on the forum).

[Thorsteinn]

Where are you located?

[Sir Percival]

Where are you located?

I'm in Vancouver, Canada.


Thanks for the replies, everyone.  I'm thinking of seeing what I can do with private lessons for now, but I really do need to figure out some way of having written content to revise for myself.  One of the things that I've encountered when I have actually sparred is an unsureness of sometimes how to respond to particular kinds of strokes.  My tendency, like most analytical people, is to stop and think, not react, but that's exactly what I need to do with swordplay.  When I do react, I tend to forget what I've learnt and just move the sword clumsily to stop an oncoming attack.  Only in slow work have I thus far been able to execute sequences correctly, but again, I need a reference, as otherwise I'll quickly forget what I learn in a class or training session.  In fact, I probably need a system where I can memorise and revise things regularly, given my experience with academic revision.  My thought is that if I can memorise things verbally, they'll come into my mind more easily as I sword-fight.

This will be especially key when I can get back into horseback riding, as I find the minutiae of tacking up a horse, as well as even simple steering, quite difficult.

I know, too, there's some missing confidence on my part when it comes to sparring with others because I don't seem to pick things up as quickly as others do.  While I've met many people who are honourable and encouraging, there have been some people, unfortunately, who are chauvinistic or otherwise unfriendly.  Of course, to be chivalrous myself, I know that this involves shaking off such negativity and persisting, but I find it difficult.  You're probably right that there are groups outside of the school who practise regularly, so I'll see what I can do get in contact with them, and do my best to choose and befriend other members who are respectful and patient.

[Sir Edward]

Oh yes, give it time. It takes a long time for things to sink in for me as well. It just takes practice to get from having to stop and think, to being able to respond quickly. Not without thought, but quickly. From any given position that the opponent is in, there are only so many options he has with which to strike you. After a while, you can start making decisions more quickly as the subset of options available to you at any given moment become more intuitive, rather than requiring hard thought.

[Lord Dane]

Good day Percival. I have been a Martial Arts instructor, weapons trainer, and SCA fighter for several years and can just offer some suggestions similar to what others have already to you. Find a group and/or person from your academy or local SCA group to train with to learn & practice. I'm sure there are several in your area.  Although groups offer most in diversity, 'individuals' are more patient and easier to train with as a beginner. Privately w/ a more experienced trainer/person always works more conducive to your learning and skill level.

Once you are ready, I would suggest starting with basics (such as gripping/handling, stancing, balance, and forms) in stationary position (i.e. static) then progress onto blocks, parries, and strikes until eventually incorporating patterns of movement (i.e. dynamic) into your skills. Practice with bo-staff or wooden waster until you feel confident enough in your basics to advance to two-handed longsword. Remember to enhance in progression your mind, body, and skill in that order. Learn the needed knowledge (mind), apply the knowledge (body), and practice the skill set together (mind & body). If you take them out of sequence, it makes less sense in learning and mastering your skills.

Practice these skill sets with an individual at your pace. I use the "mirror image" when training individually because it works great with a single opponent and when training alone. Always face your opponent/trainer (as you would in a match or fighting) so you have a 'visual representation' to demonstrate in front of you and allows you to mimic his/her technique. Then when training alone, use a full length mirror to use yourself as the same visual representation and practice on yourself seeing where you can correct your mistakes and improve upon it. I hope this advice helps you in beginning your pursuits...

You have a wealth of knowledge in this forum. Use it often. God speed to your learning, and good luck with your training.   

[Jessica Finley]

Take this with a grain of salt, because it's just my opinion and one that might be vehemently disagreed with by others, but:

I began training Liechtenauer's art in 2003 all by myself.  I didn't have anyone to train with.  After a while I attracted some attention and got other people to train with.  We had no masks, just wooden swords and a desire to learn.  That's it.  I kept on with this, clear through 2006.  Sometime in 2006 or 2007, I got my first fencing mask, still working with wooden swords, daggers, poleaxes etc.  Sometime in 2009 I got enough gear together to bout for the first time. 

That's right, I had trained with solo drills and partnered drills for SIX YEARS before I felt a need to really start sparring to round out my art.  Because of the way I trained, I don't have to think about what I do when I bout. 

Sir Ed mentioned "Muscle Memory" but it's not really anything to do with muscles.  It's getting to where you don't have to consciously command yourself to react.  Imagine if, when you wanted to ride a bicycle, you had to think about how to balance.  At one point you did, right?  You had to think about it, and you fell frequently.  Or you took a turn too sharply and wiped out.  All of these things were learned by repetition in a relatively controlled environment.  We don't  take a 4-year old who hasn't learned to ride very well and drop him into a BMX track and push him down the first hill... that is what bouting is.   Similarly, taking someone who hasn't internalized the rules of combat, and throwing him in a bout gives so many unknown scenarios (hills, jumps, dips) that he will react in an untrained and "wrong" way.  Something that gets him hit and ruins his sense of confidence in his knowledge.

Now, with my students, I don't make them wait 6 years to bout.  In fact, I'd not necessarily recommend ANYone learn the way I learned - ESPECIALLY if they have a school around to train at.  But I do look for certain cues that my students have learned the "textbook" response to certain pressures and can react to that immediately and unthinkingly.

If you are the kind of learner who needs "words" to internalize something - that is fine.  As your instructor to provide those words.  For a German practitioner, it could be as simple as learning the verse.  For a Fioreist, you too have shortened verse to go with each action.  Pick up a copy of Tom Leoni's Fiore translation and learn those words.  Chant them in your head *while* you do the action in solo drill.  Then in class.  Then, when you feel confident that you know basic responses to quite a few different kinds of attacks - you can use them in a bout.

Tom Leoni's Fiore Translation:  http://www.freelanceacademypress.com/FiorDiBattaglia.aspx

Jess

[Lord Dane]

Take this with a grain of salt, because it's just my opinion and one that might be vehemently disagreed with by others, but:

I began training Liechtenauer's art in 2003 all by myself.  I didn't have anyone to train with.  After a while I attracted some attention and got other people to train with.  We had no masks, just wooden swords and a desire to learn.  That's it.  I kept on with this, clear through 2006.  Sometime in 2006 or 2007, I got my first fencing mask, still working with wooden swords, daggers, poleaxes etc.  Sometime in 2009 I got enough gear together to bout for the first time. 

That's right, I had trained with solo drills and partnered drills for SIX YEARS before I felt a need to really start sparring to round out my art.  Because of the way I trained, I don't have to think about what I do when I bout. 

Sir Ed mentioned "Muscle Memory" but it's not really anything to do with muscles.  It's getting to where you don't have to consciously command yourself to react.  Imagine if, when you wanted to ride a bicycle, you had to think about how to balance.  At one point you did, right?  You had to think about it, and you fell frequently.  Or you took a turn too sharply and wiped out.  All of these things were learned by repetition in a relatively controlled environment.  We don't  take a 4-year old who hasn't learned to ride very well and drop him into a BMX track and push him down the first hill... that is what bouting is.   Similarly, taking someone who hasn't internalized the rules of combat, and throwing him in a bout gives so many unknown scenarios (hills, jumps, dips) that he will react in an untrained and "wrong" way.  Something that gets him hit and ruins his sense of confidence in his knowledge.

Now, with my students, I don't make them wait 6 years to bout.  In fact, I'd not necessarily recommend ANYone learn the way I learned - ESPECIALLY if they have a school around to train at.  But I do look for certain cues that my students have learned the "textbook" response to certain pressures and can react to that immediately and unthinkingly.

If you are the kind of learner who needs "words" to internalize something - that is fine.  As your instructor to provide those words.  For a German practitioner, it could be as simple as learning the verse.  For a Fioreist, you too have shortened verse to go with each action.  Pick up a copy of Tom Leoni's Fiore translation and learn those words.  Chant them in your head *while* you do the action in solo drill.  Then in class.  Then, when you feel confident that you know basic responses to quite a few different kinds of attacks - you can use them in a bout.

Tom Leoni's Fiore Translation:  http://www.freelanceacademypress.com/FiorDiBattaglia.aspx

Jess

"Repetition instills reaction" which means training methodically in the same way with consistency will eventually make it so your response to attack becomes innate or second-nature. Muscle-memory is a mind-set but nothing like repetition to make your skill set learned. I agree whole-heartedly Jessica. Good story.

[Sir Brian]

All of the previous replies are really great advice here for you to ponder upon Sir Percival from exceptional and very knowledgeable folks. The only caveat I would caution you on if you have not done any sparring/duels is to be prepared for the ‘anxiety’ of combat you will have when you first begin that phase of your training. In many cases it can mentally cripple you to inaction or hesitant reactions and is a condition that eventually disappears the more bouts you do. I was a bit surprised to experience this combat anxiety for lack of a better term when I began doing bouts in WMA two years ago, even though I had participated in a lot of Eastern Martial arts tournaments and more than a fair share of bar brawls in my youth (30 plus years ago) I wasn’t expecting to have such a strong anxiety which was mostly a concern for my training partners as I was still unsure of my overall blade control and power at the time. 

[Sir Percival]

Remember to enhance in progression your mind, body, and skill in that order. Learn the needed knowledge (mind), apply the knowledge (body), and practice the skill set together (mind & body). If you take them out of sequence, it makes less sense in learning and mastering your skills.

Ah, now that makes complete sense to me.  I reckon that with written instructions I could get the details into my head more easily.  Since the classes build onto each other and I seldom absorbed everything in full, I often had forgotten the essentials by the next class.  But I memorise written sequences rather quickly—some of professors can testify to this, seeing how quickly I could memorise inflexional paradigms when learning Latin and Greek.  If I can do that, then the written instructions are the way to go.

If you are the kind of learner who needs "words" to internalize something - that is fine.  As your instructor to provide those words.  For a German practitioner, it could be as simple as learning the verse.  For a Fioreist, you too have shortened verse to go with each action.  Pick up a copy of Tom Leoni's Fiore translation and learn those words.  Chant them in your head *while* you do the action in solo drill.  Then in class.  Then, when you feel confident that you know basic responses to quite a few different kinds of attacks - you can use them in a bout.

Yeah, I've looked at Leoni's book before at my school.  The memorisation of Fiore's verses might work, although I think I might need some additional notes just to ensure that I fully understand what's going on, but as you've mentioned, my instructor ought to be able to provide them.

The only caveat I would caution you on if you have not done any sparring/duels is to be prepared for the ‘anxiety’ of combat you will have when you first begin that phase of your training.

I have sparred before, but not at full speed, but that's fine with me, since my reaction time isn't good enough for that.  Nevertheless, that makes sense.  Hopefully with a patient instructor, we can work up to speed.

[Joshua Santana]

Percival:  This very interesting and you are on a good start in your training.  What I have found that it helps when you practice any technique, study yourself.  By this I mean learn how you react to an oncoming cut or thrust.  What technique is natural for you to do?  Do you have a set mental plan of tactics?  You must ask yourself these question when you are training solo or with a partner. 

In regards to studying Fiore, there is plenty of material via other schools that can help you grasp the fundamental concepts of the Fiore Tradition.  Use that material in addition to the Text by Leoni. 

When sparring at half-speed, train your mind to see the predicted path of the blow and react based on that.  In other words, when you free fence, train your mental reaction and timing this can help you progress in the future.