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This travesty of justice sets my blood to boil!
Lord Dane:
--- Quote from: SirNathanQ on 2012-07-31, 03:28:03 ---Seems simple enough to me. Use the apparently very vivid visual evidence so kindly provided to weigh each parties stories. Apparently the boys actually plead guilty, and made a plea bargain. Simple, clean-cut case.
From my (admittedly, quite limited) experience, it seems to me that this girl was out looking for vengeance (rather understandable if her claims are true) and not justice, and was shocked to learn that she wasn't going to do a big dramatic trial hearing where the boys would receive a heavy sentence from a shocked and appalled jury, and probably become a media sensation or something.
she is in the wrong. Being a victim doesn't entitle you to break the law. If she did indeed post those things and violate the law in doing so, punish her for it. Punish the boys for the rape and sexual assault they are pleading guilty to. Simple enough.
--- End quote ---
Very little is often simple when distinguishing between 'justice' & 'vengeance'. Motives are often the key factors in determining between the two. Granted, I speak from someone that does this as a profession but I have been a victim's advocate as well as investigator of such crimes. Older days would have made justice as easy as an "eye for an eye" but modern society dictates morality & civility in how we approach judgement. The law is not made simple and may not even deliver justice in a form satisfying to crime victims and their loved ones. But the system must also protect those accused falsely and have reprocussions for allegations that have serious consequences.
Justice is something I wish for all crimes against the person specifically those such as murder and sexual assault. Rape cases brings a specific rage out of me because I have seen first-hand the aftermath in many different scenarios that last a lifetime. Supporting those affected becomes a lifelong process towards recovery (that may never arise). Any comfort (even empathy) one can give to those affected, matters much towards healing .....
SirNathanQ:
Oh, I understand. My first reaction it to make those men play leapfrog with unicorns!
But the law goes easier on those who won't "Fight to the bitter end" and make a big hearing and case out of it. I think she was shocked by this, and vented her anger (and in the process violated the law) on twitter.
All rape victims deserve empathy, caring, whatever it is that they need to gain whatever recovery they can. But it's not a "Get out of jail free" card as far as violating the law.
Sir Brian:
--- Quote from: SirNathanQ on 2012-07-31, 14:13:23 ---Oh, I understand. My first reaction it to make those men play leapfrog with unicorns!
But the law goes easier on those who won't "Fight to the bitter end" and make a big hearing and case out of it. I think she was shocked by this, and vented her anger (and in the process violated the law) on twitter.
All rape victims deserve empathy, caring, whatever it is that they need to gain whatever recovery they can. But it's not a "Get out of jail free" card as far as violating the law.
--- End quote ---
There is no comparison of her infraction of the ‘law’ to those A-holes’ infractions of the law. They all violated the law but the girl’s infraction is a misdemeanor where as the pond-scum committed felonies.
The insult added to injury perpetrated upon this girl by our court system was the fact that the system placed a higher value upon the future prospects of those underage criminals whose records will be sealed and be clear of any further public scrutiny when they turn 18, yet she has to endure the burden of those scars for the rest of her life!
Oh and what is all this happy horse-sh** with hypothesizing or second guessing the girl’s motives or intentions when there isn’t a shred of evidence proving or disproving it? – Which ironically enough proves the very stigma this girl has suffered this past year, yet those scumbags are ‘protected’ from that because they are ‘minors’? Instead of speculating that she was some woman scorned which regrettably does happen however with those rapists taking a plea bargain, it expounds upon the surety of their guilt and supports the validity of her accusations. She should be commended for her courage to stand and demand justice and not allow her honor to be further violated for the court’s expediency or society’s misplaced empathy for underage rapists.
Sir William:
--- Quote from: Sir Brian on 2012-07-31, 15:14:30 ---Oh and what is all this happy horse-sh** with hypothesizing or second guessing the girl’s motives or intentions when there isn’t a shred of evidence proving or disproving it? – Which ironically enough proves the very stigma this girl has suffered this past year, yet those scumbags are ‘protected’ from that because they are ‘minors’? Instead of speculating that she was some woman scorned which regrettably does happen however with those rapists taking a plea bargain, it expounds upon the surety of their guilt and supports the validity of her accusations. She should be commended for her courage to stand and demand justice and not allow her honor to be further violated for the court’s expediency or society’s misplaced empathy for underage rapists.
--- End quote ---
I take it you have never been on the receiving end of such outrage, Sir Brian, otherwise you might not be so blind to the possibility. That is not to say that I am against your view- I share it, but Sir James reminded me, especially in this day and age, that not all people are as noble or honorable as we would like to believe them to be.
I should like to be able to take anyone at their word, if only because I am of that mind- but I would be naive to believe that it is so. I am also of the mind that teenaged boys are quite aware of their actions and should be punished for it- without sealing their records so they can go on with their lives...they should have to live under the stigma of 'ex-con' just like any other foolish enough to commit a crime and get caught.
Sir Brian:
--- Quote from: Sir William on 2012-07-31, 15:35:49 ---I take it you have never been on the receiving end of such outrage, Sir Brian, otherwise you might not be so blind to the possibility. That is not to say that I am against your view- I share it, but Sir James reminded me, especially in this day and age, that not all people are as noble or honorable as we would like to believe them to be.
I should like to be able to take anyone at their word, if only because I am of that mind- but I would be naive to believe that it is so. I am also of the mind that teenaged boys are quite aware of their actions and should be punished for it- without sealing their records so they can go on with their lives...they should have to live under the stigma of 'ex-con' just like any other foolish enough to commit a crime and get caught.
--- End quote ---
Truly Sir William you have vastly presumed wrong. In fact I most certainly have firsthand experience in the recent past and still ongoing, of being wrongfully condemned and disgraced by disreputable and nefarious individuals so I am keenly aware of the ‘possibility’ of the false and wicked accusations of ignoble malcontents.
I also have no delusions as to the true state of humanity Sir William which as a whole is utterly corrupt and morally deficient. I live daily with the expectation that I will see the absolute worst from any new person I happen to meet and ultimately hope I end up seeing them at their very best; however until such a time I am forever vigilant of their words and actions to warrant or moderate my suspicions.
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