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This travesty of justice sets my blood to boil!
Sir James A:
--- Quote from: Sir Edward on 2012-07-26, 16:01:50 ---
--- Quote from: James Anderson III on 2012-07-26, 15:31:23 ---The link you posted went to a blank page for me, so I had to google.
--- End quote ---
Do you have NoScript running on firefox? It looks like it's one of those annoying pages that uses javascript to load the actual content.
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The URL tag was mismatched / broken and showed the URL wrong so it just went to a blank page. When I copy/pasted it worked, but looks like it's fixed now.
Am I missing what the court's ruling was? I didn't see that anywhere, only about her tweeting about it.
--- Quote from: Sir William on 2012-07-26, 16:31:05 ---That she was underage, they were underage, it was a party, there was alcohol present, everyone was doing it - all of that is irrelevant.
I also would not call the parents to task too much
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In this case, it would be questions to the parents of were they home at the time, did they know what activities were going on / sanction it, or were they oblivious / not home. I agree 100% that the teens involved almost certainly didn't call their parents and say "we're about to do this, sound like a good idea?".
Side story - A long time ago, at 17, the same day I got my driver's license, I departed on a unannounced cross country road trip from VA to CA to meet a girl I was talking to online and had never met - later to have a chance encounter at the Ohio turnpike with an 18 wheeler, a concrete jersey wall, a steering wheel, a concussion, a dashboard, a stretcher, stitches, and a friendly hospital staff that let me watch the accident cleanup on the news from my hospital bed ... I'm completely familiar with the "wow, that was an *amazingly* poor choice!" of teenage boy mindset. So familiar, that I literally made the local morning news because of it. :)
I know in some states, parents who allow under age drinking can be charged with 'contributing to the delinquency of a minor', and I vaguely recall some case where the homeowners had some underage kids over, who left drunk, and killed someone/multiple people in a fatal car wreck. The homeowners were charged as accessories to murder, or something similar, even though they never left their house. As juveniles in this case, their parents could have some potential legal responsibility in it, if the state law is such.
--- Quote from: Sir William on 2012-07-26, 16:31:05 ---Unless this girl gave approval for any sort of sexual congress, those boys had no right to lay a hand on her, drunk and passed out or not.
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That's exactly what I'd like to know, and why the circumstances are important. If she gave consent, while drunk, and doesn't remember saying it, what does that mean to her case/claim? What if she let it happen, and only started the rape claim when the pictures went online, knowing she would be in trouble for it? What if one or both of the perps are exes of hers that she pissed off and/or dumped, then they retaliated by posting the pictures of them ''roleplaying" as such (when they were on good terms), and she retaliated by filing the rape claim?
Side Story - There was a story floating around of a guy who found out he got his girlfriend pregnant, and also found out she had been cheating on him. When he threatened to break up with her, she said she would call the police and say she was raped by him (since she's pregnant w/his kid). He managed to videotape themselves, without her knowledge, as she made the same threats again, while gloating about owning him. (Then did some sexual stuff - which makes the following even more embarassing). True to his word, he broke up with her - and she filed the false police report. When he and his parents went to the police station, and the girl and her parents were there, he presented the tape as evidence while she sat at the police station crying wolf ... needless to say what the outcome of the police report was after viewing the tape. To boot, she had to live with her parents knowing she not only lied about being raped to them *and* the police, but she had made her own underage sex tape, too.
I guess it's that the pictures are a snapshot in time, and given that the participants are of similar age and (as far as I know) able to engage in such activities legally and willingly, it's not a question of did it happen, it's a question of : was it consensual at the time and she's filing as revenge, or is it a valid claim for something she never agreed to and is truly a victim of? With the scarcity of info I've seen, I can't decide either way.
As somebody who knows women who have been raped, it's a short fuse for me. But as somebody who also knows women who have woke up naked in bed with somebody they can't remember going to bed with (after a night out drinking heavily), it's a grey area, too.
Sir William:
You make an excellent point, one that I did not bother to give thought to- whether or not she's crying wolf. I'd love to believe that she is not, but of course, I'm biased with that sort of thing. Which is a shame, as I pride myself on being clear- and relatively cool-headed...and yet I was still more than willing to believe the worst of those boys, without given them any real consideration with regard to being innocent of the charge. Given that they're basically getting away with it, my thinking is that the evidence must be ambiguous at best, otherwise the charges would be harsher.
I used to know women like the one you described, Sir James, willing to give false testimony to achieve her own self-serving ends. Thank you for the lesson, Sir James, I shall not forget it.
Thorsteinn:
At least the contempt of court charge was lifted.
Sir James A:
--- Quote from: James Anderson III on 2012-07-26, 19:57:48 ---As somebody who knows women who have been raped, it's a short fuse for me. But as somebody who also knows women who have woke up naked in bed with somebody they can't remember going to bed with (after a night out drinking heavily), it's a grey area, too.
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Re-reading, I feel I should clarify this and say that the person(s) those women woke up with drunk and/or naked the next morning with, was not me and did not involve me in any way.
--- Quote from: Sir William on 2012-07-26, 21:31:02 ---I used to know women like the one you described, Sir James, willing to give false testimony to achieve her own self-serving ends. Thank you for the lesson, Sir James, I shall not forget it.
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My pleasure. We're all human, male and female, both capable of indiscretions, both capable of the same sins. I can easily say "based on the evidence given, I feel X", though I try to think of the "devil's advocate" scenario. It didn't happen much before I kept seeing Maeryk's posts on ArmourArchive - which, I'm sure you're familiar with. Changed my perspective a bit, and sometimes, I wanted to choke him, too. :)
SirNathanQ:
Seems simple enough to me. Use the apparently very vivid visual evidence so kindly provided to weigh each parties stories. Apparently the boys actually plead guilty, and made a plea bargain. Simple, clean-cut case.
From my (admittedly, quite limited) experience, it seems to me that this girl was out looking for vengeance (rather understandable if her claims are true) and not justice, and was shocked to learn that she wasn't going to do a big dramatic trial hearing where the boys would receive a heavy sentence from a shocked and appalled jury, and probably become a media sensation or something.
she is in the wrong. Being a victim doesn't entitle you to break the law. If she did indeed post those things and violate the law in doing so, punish her for it. Punish the boys for the rape and sexual assault they are pleading guilty to. Simple enough.
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