How "in shape" was the average knight or man at arms?

[Sir Wolf]

in movies you see old fat knights or man at arms or average joes, in reading old 12th century stories you read about guys going at battle for the entire day against just 1 opponent. how fit do you think the guys of the time were? did they lose it with age and gained wisdom? heehhe

[Sir Edward]

I think much like today, you'd see a full spectrum. Someone who is out practicing and competing in tournaments all the time will be in better physical condition, but also probably has a higher chance of having persistent injuries (joints never fully recover, for instance). And there would certainly be older knights who rest on their laurels, so to speak.

I may have to go back and re-read Geffroi de Charny's Book of Knighthood. He ranks different kinds of knights and men at arms based on their worth, determined by what they do. And if I recall correctly, he specifically mentions disdain for those who have allowed themselves to get large in the middle, and start trying to hide it with tight garments.

[Das Bill]

Well, we know about the types of conditioning they did. They threw heavy stones for sport, they practiced acrobatics (including walking on their hands), they wrestled, they rode horseback, and in general did a lot more just for fun than the average modern person ever even thinks about doing. That doesn't even get into the fact that they didn't sit at desks all day, didn't have television or the internet, and walked pretty much everywhere because they didn't have a choice.

Further, based on my research into the historical martial arts, the types of things the average fencer was expected to be able to do is pretty damn intense. I'm thinking they were pretty damn fit.

[Sir Edward]

Very good points. I think if we were able to go back in time and visit them, they'd think we're all weaklings.

[Sir Brian]

Very good points. I think if we were able to go back in time and visit them, they'd think we're all weaklings.

That is undoubtedly true; then again depending on what type of job you do in our modern times will earn you the same consideration. Men that work day in and day out on the water front in the extreme heat and cold consider guys like me (management and office types) as weak and pampered by readily available AC/Heat and limited physical labor.

I think another aspect to consider is the overall mental toughness of knights and men at arms to not only endure the all the physical hardships but also the pain without the relief of readily available pain medication, after all wine and spirits can only do so much! 

[Sir Edward]

I think it also matters which period we're discussing. Earlier on, when knighthood was actually an elite warrior class, they probably would have been in top shape, unless injured beyond the capacity to maintain it. By the 16th century, it was evolving into a title of lower nobility, and there were knights who were not warriors in the earlier sense.

[Sir Ulrich]

Probably pretty fit like an athlete who's rather flexible and agile but definitely not musclemen. Got a friend who thinks everyone back then was buff and strong like him, what he fails to realize is having tons of muscles and mass lowers your stamina and makes you less agile. Knights and soldiers HAD to be agile to avoid attacks and swing swords properly. Stamina matters more than strength especially in a heated battle.

[Sir Edward]

I agree. I doubt they spent two hours a day lifting weights. Rather, they were doing athletic activities that build stamina and strength, not pure bulk.

[Sir Wolf]

really great answers all around. i figure there diet had a lot to do with their conditioning as well. in reading you always hear how knights were invited to stay here or there so you know they ate better than the rest of the crowd.

i asked this cause I'm on a life style change of food and exercise. it's not a diet cause i don't wanna stop it hehehe.  watching what i'm eating, plenty of water, and running or stomach conditioning each day. I'm tired of being fat and out of shape hehehe

[Sir Edward]

That's a good plan. I'm getting pretty sick of my physical condition too. I was exercising and avoiding excess carbs last year, and it was starting to help, and then I slacked off. I really need to get back to it. I'm clearly never going to lead an athletic lifestyle, but at least I can do something more than sit in front of a computer all the time.

[Sir Wolf]

so far i've managed to to do a mile at least each day. not to bad from a guy that hasn't run at all since high school soccer hahaha

[Sir Brian]

I think it is great that you are looking to take more consideration for your health and physical condition. It is far better to do it earlier in life than later when you are in your late forties and fifties!

I had talked about it for a couple of years but wasn’t inspired (or shamed) enough to start until Rosemary and I went to GLMF and met up with a friend I met a couple years back who is also into wearing armor and a lifelong student of chivalry and history. In the two years since I had seen him last he had completely metamorphosed into another person physically. His friends at the fair had aptly dubbed him “Conan”. Since he is only 4 or five years younger than me it was more than enough to inspire and shame me into taking my excess weight seriously and I have successfully adapted my eating habits and mentality towards losing weight and getting into better shape.

In my new lifestyle diet I only eat bread and pasta on very rare occasions. No cereals (except oatmeal), crackers, chips, etc. I eat more proteins, fresh fruits and vegetables. I also manage my portions better and eat smaller meals more frequently. Exercise consists of a vigorous 2.5 mile walk at lunch and some high rep/low weight workouts during my morning and afternoon coffee breaks.
My stomach workouts start in the morning before I leave for work in which I do approximately 100 – 150 stomach crunches on my “AB Scissors” machine. – so my core muscles are very solid, they just have a layer of fat over them!

Good luck and don't give up! When I have a bad day and fall off the program, I start again the next day. I'm still enjoying the good stuff just not as much or as often! 

[Sir Edward]

For me, what was working last year was a combination of mild dietary changes, and some exercise at the gym.

The dietary changes were to reduce needless carbs, which meant cutting out the useless snacking for the most part (with low-calorie snacks being OK, like those little 10-calorie jello snacks), and avoiding potatoes/fries and bread. Instead of pop-tarts for breakfast, I switched to a combination of raisin-bran (for the fiber) and cheerios. I made an effort to eat salads more frequently as well, and allow myself to leave some food left over more frequently. So nothing earth-shattering here.

The exercise that I was doing was to visit a local gym twice a week after work. They had these electronic bikes with an LCD screen that let you race against your own prior runs, while biking through woodlands and other virtual scenic trails. I'd do 25 to 30 minutes on the bike (attempting to always out-do my previous times per virtual lap), then spend 25 to 30 minutes using the various weight and resistance machines. The latter I don't think helped much, since if I really wanted to build strength, I think I'd have had to do a lot more of it. But my endurance improved considerably from the virtual biking.

I managed to lose about 18 pounds at my peak, in about 2 or 3 months. I've since put about 9 of them back on.

Ironically, I think I'm physically stronger now than any other time in my life, despite having the strength of a couch-potato. I was quite a weakling of a teenager, for instance. The endurance I gained while I was using the gym was very beneficial in my historical swordsmanship. I need to regain that.

[Sir Brian]

Ironically, I think I'm physically stronger now than any other time in my life, despite having the strength of a couch-potato. I was quite a weakling of a teenager, for instance. The endurance I gained while I was using the gym was very beneficial in my historical swordsmanship. I need to regain that.

That is peculiar since the opposite is typically the case. The friend I mentioned in my earlier posting had commented to me about how much weaker he had grown with age and that he couldn’t even come close to how strong he was when in his twenties (he is 42 now AFAIK). I certainly can’t do what I use to do but I think I am now physically tougher to harsh environmental conditions…of course wearing armor these past few summers probably helped that! 

[Sir Edward]

Yeah, I certainly can't do a lot of what I could when I was in my 20's, but it's more of an endurance thing. I used to bounce back very quickly, and instead these days I can get crushing fatigue. I think my strength, in terms of what I can lift and move, has been pretty consistent for a good 10 years or so, ever since I "bulked up" so to speak. I used to weigh about 65 pounds less in my 20's.  (I'm 37, so I only exited my 20's about 8 years ago)

...

Dennis: I'm 37. I'm not old.
King Arthur: Well I can't just call you "man".
Dennis: Well you could say "Dennis".
King Arthur: I didn't know you were called Dennis.