Kit Confusion

[Sir Ancelyn]

I had a great time at the faire today, meeting everyone, playing with pikes, listening to a medievel hippie singer, but even the lowly pirates still outshone me. So it is time to get a kit together.  The time period I am shooting for is a few decades either side of 1400. 

First, I'm not buying arm and leg armor or sabotons just yet, maybee later. I am thinking about a breastplate and a hounskull helm.

Second, can I skip the doublet for now or is it essential to hold up hose or braies? And really, with joined hose who would see the braies anyway? I could wear fish patterned boxers and nobody would even know. :-D

Third, does anyone have a strong opinon on the historical value of wearing a haubergeon over gambeson if I will be wearing a breastplacte anyway?

Mail Coif, essential or optional? Either way I will need to pad the inside of the helmet or risk acting like a bell clapper.

Did I forget anything?

Thanks,
Adam

[Sir Matthew]

Wow, lots of questions and that is a good thing.  I would suggest that you begin doing research into the type of armor you are considering first.   The period you are shooting for has a variety of armors still being used, which is an advantage, and depending on the area you wish to portray yourself as coming from you may have alot of options.  To answer a few of you questions, what you wear under your armor depends mostly on how historically accurate you wish to be and also comfort.  I portray a person with a more "middle class" background and I try to be as historically accurate as I can.  Thus I wear a period appropriate shirt and gambeson under my armor.  I do not wear a doublet, even though in the period I am portraying currently (Elizabethan, later 1500's) the arming doublet was in common usage.  The reason is, I originated in the midlands of England and learned my trade serving the Border Rievers.  They are well know to be somewhat backward in the armor employed, at least by their common soldiers.  Plus, in an age where heavy armor was on the decline, I continue to wear a Brigandine which was a style on the way out.  I also generally wear a kettle helm, another kind of throwback piece of armor, with a mail coif and padding.  If you wish to wear mail, in my opinion an arming cap is essential.  My general advise is to talk to those of us in armor at the faires you attend in person and bounce ideas off us, it is much easer to work things out in person.  Also, if you saw Norm at VaRF, people like him are imense sources of knowledge, use them.  While you are putting together your kit, don't be in a rush to look cool.  Take your time and buy quality stuff that fits you right physically and personae wise.  Also, don't get so caught up in the armor that you forget the little things, like period correct pants and footwear.  To me, nothing looks worse than seeing a guy wearing beautiful plate armor with jeans and sneakers.  I hope this is helpful to you and good luck.  Be aware that once you begin, it never stops.  I'm currently hard at work finishing up my "light" kit, padded armor with a gorget for a 16th century musketeer personae.  I'm also already in the early planning stages for the heavy padded armor I intend to make in the off season for next year.

[Sir Ancelyn]

Funny you should mention the Border Reivers laddie, Clan Elliott was one of the worst of the lot; in short we did what Robert The Bruce had in mind.

As I mentioned, I am holding back on most armor for now. But a helmet and breastplade don't seem unreasonable. Yes, I still need to do more research. As for my locality, I have left that vague for now to allow me time to look around.  Indeed, why choose a locality outside of Great Britain anyway.  Lots of people must have been evasive about their origins for a plethora of reasons.

[Sir Ancelyn]

Here are a couple of hounskull helmets on eBay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140345320658&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

The dummy in the second item has a very believable mustache.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180496510817&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

[Sir Brian]

Funny you should mention the Border Reivers laddie, Clan Elliott was one of the worst of the lot; in short we did what Robert The Bruce had in mind.

As I mentioned, I am holding back on most armor for now. But a helmet and breastplade don't seem unreasonable. Yes, I still need to do more research. As for my locality, I have left that vague for now to allow me time to look around.  Indeed, why choose a locality outside of Great Britain anyway.  Lots of people must have been evasive about their origins for a plethora of reasons.

You got that right! btw, I don't know if you realized it or not but Sir Andrew is a decendant of Clan Elliott. 

[Dragonlover]

You betcher skippie!!!! The Elliotts, Scotts, and Armstrongs were constantly raiding over the border for loot, livestock, and women. Not to mention a horse or two! VARF has come and gone for another year and it was an excellent time as always! Our own Sir Edward had the opportunity to give some instruction to a young man, much to the relief of his mother, Sir Brian tried his hand at axe throwing, and I managed to get a pretty good archery lesson and bout in. Of course, the real star was Ed's new scabbard and afterwards on Sat, he let Sir Brian and I heft his Albion. I couldn't swing it, all I could do was drool!

 Many thanks to all who came out and Sir Blackwolf, I hope the plans my lady gave you serve you well.I am glad I got to meet Lady Alexa and Lord Keith, Jake and his lady, whose name just now escapes me. And a heartedly well-met to you, Casey! Cheers everybody!

[Sir Wolf]

if you want to do it right, don't buy anything. research first

u say a few decades before or after 1400, but let me tell you that is a WORLD of HUGE difference in armour, clothing, fashion and social. get down the dates to about 10 years or so. area (England, France, German) makes a huge difference on the same too!

i wouldn't buy either of those helmets. one they are way over priced and 2 they don't really look like the real thing

as to doublet. well before mid 1400s there were no "doublets."  chausis and later hose were held up by the brais and then later "they think" by the pourpoint during fighting.

some good books for you to look into are the Osprey Publishing: Men at Arms or Elite or Warrior series. lots of different types focusing on short tidbits here and there, and cheap enough that if you don't really like that "look" you can get another book.  another great book is 1381 The Peel Affinity. written and photographed by a local living history group. shows a great variety of armour and clothing for the 14thc.

here's just a few of my Osprey at easy reach of the computer, there are 100s of these books.

Osprey Publishing
Men -at-Arms:
  Medieval European Armies, The Swiss at War, The Armies of Crecy & Poitiers, Italian Medieval Armies, German Medieval Armies, French Medieval Armies, Scandinavian Baltic     Crusaders, Medieval Polish Armies

Elite:
 Knights at Tourneyments

Warrior:
 English Medieval Knights, Knight Hospitaller, Knight of Outremer, Italian Militiamen

for the correct way to do it, yes a hauberk needs to be worn over a aketon/gambeson in the 14thc but just for faires it maybe a tad hot heheh. again to the coif, research, the helmet you may choose might not call for a mail coif but a mail aventail attached to the helm itself

now don't get me wrong I love a great kit. whether its done historically, fantasy or just down right looks cool I just don't want you to buy something and then be ah man i could have spent this and got this instead cheaper or gotten this and looked better or more to what I want. hehehe let us help you out here. find a great picture of what you aspire to be and we all here will do our best to help you look the most kick ass you can

[Sir Ancelyn]

Thanks Sir. Wolf!

This is the kind of information I can use, especially about the helmets. I'll be back when I have more questions. :-D

Thanks,
Adam

[Sir Wolf]

oh i'm good about helmets, i have 23 or so of them

[Sir Ancelyn]

Okay, you said you are great with helmets. I am looking at hounskulls and sugarloaf great helms right now and have some questions. 

Should the hounskull have attachment points on the outside of the neck for the aventail? Is there a prefered number? Should they be large or small? If missing from the helmet can these be added or should I go with a different maker?
Guage of steel; is 18 preferable to 16?  I am leaning towards 18 for the sake of weight.
How much clearance is good, under 1" on a side?

Here are my latest items for coveting:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200523209729&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT This one is being sold by several sellers for a wide variety of prices. Bolts for the aventail are not in evidence.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180496510817&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT This one illustrates the concept of "Oh my, did you attach bolts to your neck?"
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310261118351&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT I like this sugarloaf, but am not wedded to this one. For the price it seems reasonable at least as a decoration.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310260485757&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT Perhaps this one could be for an evil prersona, or an evil room. :-)

I haven't bought anything as of yet, still browsing.

[Sir Wolf]

although this one isn't too bad: http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AB1400&name=European+Pig+Faced+Helmet

this one looks more historical: http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AB0423&name=Houndskull+Bascinet+Helmet

the aventail attached to the outside of the helmet. the lil "bolts" are called vervelles. they pass thru the leather that is on the top edge of the aventail and a wire is run thru them from one side to the other and then knotted off.

[Sir Ancelyn]

Thanks Sir Wolf. I note that Kult of Athena is also a better price compared to other sources (read ebay).
Haven't researched aventails yet, but that is on the to do list.

[Sir Brian]

These are very reasonably priced, the link is courtesy of our good Conall 

http://www.therionarms.com/reenact/therionarms_c1298.html
There ya go, that should work with it as it's made by GDFB as well.

However be warned that they are backordered but are due to be available for shipping this month. 

[Sir Ancelyn]

Well, one month is probably alright for a delay.  I want to get my kit together early next year.

[Sir Wolf]

also depends on what size head you got too hehe