Practicing with sharps

[Sir Edward]

Anyone else see this thread on myArmoury?

http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=153467

It started out sounding like a question about doing simple drills with sharps, but then they OP clarified that he was talking about a friend of his who was supposedly sparring with sharps. Quickly the thread turned into a discussion about minimum safety standards, and examples from ARMA where control and precision are assumed to be sufficient replacements for safety gear in some cases.

As seems to frequently happen, I posted a reply and the thread died. I used to find that irritating. Now I look at it as having the final word. lol

I've been expecting someone to drastically misinterpret my meaning, and then the thread would continue, but it hasn't happened. I guess that's good.

[Das Bill]

I had followed the thread, but I didn't feel like getting involved. I felt enough people had made the points I would have made.

Short answer: Sparring with sharps is stupid beyond words. Unbelievably stupid.

Training with sharps, however, is a different story, but only in certain forms of training. There are certain Japanese swordsmanship schools that do certain paired kata with sharpened weapons. Each step is prearranged, and the practitioners have also been studying for years. There is definately a level of danger involved, but ultimately there is a high level of control, particularly because each person knows what the other is going to do. I know Guy Windsor occassionally has his advanced students do certain drills with sharps (but again, these are drills, not free play). And in the thread, someone brought up how the Italian master Viggiani recommended training with sharps to force the student to really worry about not being hit, but they failed to point out that Viggiani was also not talking about free fencing.

[Sir Wolf]

heh, sometimes i wonder if anyone ever listens or just wants to put forth their own opinions to be heard over there. 

ya i totally agree, training with sharps is ok only at high, HIGH lvls or under direct supervision of a trainer that is TRAINED in practicing in sharps, but for the average person or low lvl, its stupid. just stupid. i remember with Ed and I used to play around with starfires. man u wore thick gloves, fencing masks, padded coats etc for that "just in case" something happened. and those were crowbar blunts

[Sir Edward]

Short answer: Sparring with sharps is stupid beyond words. Unbelievably stupid.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Practice drills, cutting practice, etc are a different story. But I find it hard to imagine that anyone is stupid enough to free-fence with sharps.

Hehe, I remember playing with the Starfires. Medieval crowbars... that about sums it up. But we weren't really trying to hit each other either, it was slow-speed attacks and parries, and we still geared up anyway.

[Sir James (Fiat Lux)]

The Fiat Lux uses Starfires pretty frequently for our steel fights. Occasionally there's an Albion or 2, but the lifetime warranty is nice. We've broken more than one of these things over someone's head!

[Sir Edward]

I remember watching some of the combat down at NCRF last year with the Starfires. It makes a lot more sense in harness, like your group was doing. Last time I played with mine, we were in basic fencing gear, and it was a lot more frightening than working with Albions, I must say!

You're right about the lifetime warranty. I sometimes wish some of the other manufacturers would offer that, but I suspect that the warranty is what prompted Starfire to make their swords so beefy, rather than the other way around.

[Sir James (Fiat Lux)]

Those things make one hell of a sound when they break, too. We still have a broken one that we've been meaning to (for 2 years now!) get replaced, but it makes for such a great conversation piece!

Especially side-by-side with the helm it was broken over. Oh, the crease!

[Sir Brian]

Heh, necromancing an almost six year old thread just might be a record for this forum!

Here is a really interesting video pertaining to the topic title.


Roland seriously knows his stuff and brings some stark reality to some of the misconceptions some folks have of HEMA training with blunts. Just as synthetics react differently from aluminum and steel blunts, so too does sharps verses blunts.

[Sir William]

I have never fenced with a sharp so this is news to me- thanks for sharing Sir Brian.  I wonder how many other people might automatically assume that the differences between a sharp and blunt are inconsequential, other than the obvious.

[Thorsteinn]

I did this with semi sharp Spears once. It was fantastically eye opening.

[Sir Edward]

Yeah, several groups are working with sharps now, to get an understanding of how it influences the moves. It's not all immediately intuitive, and some of the plays in the manuscripts make a lot more sense when using sharps. There are those moments of "so THAT's why they said to do this..."

[Thorsteinn]

Real metal spears hook & disengage in fascinating and sometimes subtle ways that cannot come through as easily in simulators. And I'm not even talking about the blade edge either but the base of the blade where it comes into the shaft. As well there are tip & edge cuts that become very obvious in that instance.

[Sir Martyn]

Good update Sir Brian

[Ian]

Saw that video when Dimicator posted it.  Fascinating stuff.  It all goes back to context!

[Sir Nate]

Hmm, maybe Me and Aiden should practice with sharps one day.
Although I don't think many would deem that Wise.