Templar cross

[Sir Nate]

This has always bothered me, in the white plain of a templars surcoat, does the cross lie on the heart, or is it centered with the plain?

[Sir Edward]

As far as I know, both were done.

[Sir Nate]

I thought the cross in the center of the chest was just for normal crusading soldiers
and the cross on the heart was for knights, or higher ranking templars.

[Sir Edward]

It gets complicated. The Templars were granted special permission to wear a red cross on a white habit.

[Sir Nate]

since crusaders were say hospitallers, templars, teutonics. can someone were say any surcoat fighting for jerusalem be considered a "crusader"?

[Sir Douglas]

Basically, anyone who fought at the behest of the Catholic Church against "heretics" was considered a crusader, regardless of whose colors they wore. The Templars, Hospitallers, etc. were religious-military orders. If you joined an order, you usually sacrificed your own heraldry and wore that of your order. Think Balian in Kingdom of Heaven versus Arn in...well, Arn.
Both were crusaders, but Balian was not a member of an order and thus retained his own heraldry, whereas Arn was a member of the Templars and had to wear the Templar cross in place of his own arms (the "Azure, a lion rampant Or", or whatever it was).

Usually, however, a crusader would wear a cross somewhere on his person to signify that he was indeed a crusader. Like this fellow from the Westminster Psalter: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/Westminster_Knight.jpg

At least that's how I understand it.

[Aiden of Oreland]

What made you able to identify a templar and tell the difference between a normal crusader? Or did the white plain with the red cross always show that you are a templar?

[Timothy]

Hello,

This is from the Knights Templar vault.

 http://knightstemplarvault.com/templar-cross/

It helps a little.

Timothy

[Sir Douglas]

What made you able to identify a templar and tell the difference between a normal crusader? Or did the white plain with the red cross always show that you are a templar?

Right, the red cross on a white surcoat almost always meant, "Hey, I'm a Templar." White was reserved for only the knights, though (I imagine it would be a pain to keep clean ). Templar sergeants and squires would have worn a red cross on a black or brown mantle. Most of the monastic crusading orders actually had pretty strict rules regarding dress. Actually, they had pretty strict rules regarding everything. This is from the Latin Rule.

On the Brothers' Dress

17. We command that all the brothers' habits should always be of one colour, that is white or black or brown. And we grant to all knight brothers in winter and in summer if possible, white cloaks; and no-one who does not belong to the aforementioned Knights of Christ is allowed to have a white cloak, so that those who have abandoned the life of darkness will recognise each other as being reconciled to their creator by the sign of the white habits: which signifies purity and complete chastity. Chastity is certitude of heart and healthiness of body. For if any brother does not take the vow of chastity he cannot come to eternal rest nor see God, by the promise of the apostle who said: Pacem sectamini cum omnibus et castimoniam sine qua nemo Deum videbit. That is to say: 'Strive to bring peace to all, keep chaste, without which no-one can see God.

[Aiden of Oreland]

Now that clears up a lot. Haha and I guess they all had "chastity belts" also lol. But What marked you as a crusader?

[Sir Douglas]

Usually, they would try to integrate a cross somewhere in their gear, like sewing it onto their tunics or wearing it on their shoulders like that Westminster Psalter guy I mentioned earlier. They would literally "take up the cross" and display it somewhere on their person.

[Sir James A]

Templars also had a few changes in the colors they wore, as, if I remember right, dictated by a few different popes during their timeframe.

[Lord Dane]

Any man who took to crusade, generally swore an oath to the Church, thereby granting him the bearing of a crusader cross in some variation, so long as he upheld his oath to serve God and his Lord. Only monastic-military orders had specific and stringent guidelines of dress and behavior expected of them.

[Sir Nate]

wow now I know thank smog.
Well I guess I need to start up my templar research again.(blame school)
Thank you, all.